Nigel Farage on abortions- slippery slope?

[Ph2028]

Following the speech, Farage was also asked about his view on abortion limits. He replied that he was pro-choice but that it was "utterly ludicrous" for abortion to be allowed up to 24 weeks, when a hospital would "move heaven and earth" to help a baby born at 22 weeks survive.

Aibu to think it may be a slippery slope to reducing the number of weeks until it is effectively banned...

Anyway it's a bit of a non issue on Nigel's part given nearly 94% of reported abortions happen before two and a half months of pregnancy.so very few abortions happen at 24 weeks.

Now i remember why I requested a tubal ligation when I was pregnant with first baby as I didn't want anymore in any circumstances. It was predictably denied so dh got a vasectomy instead.

It's all about control.

Pro-lifers do not give a crap about women or fetuses. I can absolutely guarantee you these people are not lining up to support adoption services or volunteering as foster parents or whatever.

They don't care that in many parts of the world where abortion is not freely available that it doesn't stop abortions happening, it just makes it more dangerous. They don't care that around 70,000 women die each year from unsafe abortions. That number make me absolutely furious, but nah, that's just 70,000 women who should have been more careful and made better decisions, right?

They'll put little caveats next to every opinion to try to justify themselves, but ultimately it's (mostly) men and some women thinking they have any sort of right to tell women what they do with their bodies. And that can get right in the fucking bin.

That doesn’t mean abortion shouldn’t be available though. It means more should be done to support women in coercive relationships. And actually I think it’s fair enough for a father to say he doesn’t want a baby and would prefer his partner to have an abortion. It’s still her choice about going through with it. That’s not the same as forcing someone to abort. It’s also fine for parents to suggest an abortion if their child is pregnant in really unsuitable circumstances (eg if they are 15 years old and haven’t even finished school). Again the decision is the woman’s.

You volunteer on a hotline re abortion!? Unless the hotline is the "Jesuit hotline for harlot women" I don't think someone with your anti-abortion stance should be taking those calls. So I'm not inclined to believe your statement about how many women are apparently coerced. Your "proof" of this has changed a few times now. FIrst it was the BBC article - except it turned out that your "coercion" was actually just "pressure" or opinions.

Now it's because you've personally spoken to SOOOO many women in this situation?

Frankly, I think you're just making stuff up now.

Don't get me wrong, I think that there probably ARe loads of women who get pressure to have an abortion, not least from the men responsible for providing the sperm that made the foetus. But that does not mean men benefit MORE from abortion. If these women you speak to don't get an abortion what's the REAL impact on the men? Barely anything. At worst, a little judgement in their communities and the need to pay some minimal amount of child support.

And I 100% agree with @Glowingup point that a man pressuring a woman to have an abortion is probably not exactly a good guy so the chances he's goign to be a great dad or partner long term are pretty slim.

If we are going anecdotal I know someone who was pressured by family to keep the child.

she should not have kept the child. That more girl has never been loved, never felt cherished. Never felt wanted.

is that really better?

there’s pressure on both sides. What we need is better support for women making that choice

I think it’s wrong actually to suggest an abortion to anyone, it’s the woman alone who has to go through it.

The judgment towards teenage mothers in the UK generally is disappointing, I don’t agree with pressuring teenagers into abortions they don’t want purely because of their age, no.

A good friend of mine had a baby at 15. I was the only person she confided in at school. Thankfully her family, partner and school staff were kind and non-judgmental once she could no longer keep it a secret. He’s now a thriving young adult, she’s thriving too. His birth did not hinder her life in the slightest. Always smile when I see them together. Stacey Solomon is also a brilliant role model for young mothers.

absolutely this

Yes and lets forget that domestic abuse increases by something like 20/25% when a woman in an abusive relationship becomes pregnant as well as the fact they are often prevented from accessing reproductive health due to being restricted from leaving the house often due to childcare duties and the abuser refusing to help.

I find this mindset absolutely boggling. A woman should be forced to be a mother? Really? I notice you're not insisting that the man should be forced to be a father
You git it the wrong way. A woman carrying a baby I'd not forcing her to become a mother because she has the option of giving that baby up and move on. Men ARE forced to be fathers when the mother decides to keep a baby. They can't demand abortions or adoption, so yes I stand by what I say.

Having an abortion without a medical reason IS legal before 24 weeks. It isn't after. Yes, the percentage are low, but the numbers still not unsignificant. We don't know that all are for medical reasons, but that's irrelevant because that option to terminate for genuine medical issues will remain as it is currently legal after 24 weeks.

Generally girls who have babies as young teens don’t end up like Stacey Solomon and risk huge disruption to their education and a loss of opportunities. And it is actually okay for their parents to express an opinion given that few 15 year olds can raise a baby themselves and if they are to thrive later in life they need their parents to basically take over care of the baby for several years to allow them to complete their education. You seem to have a very romanticised view of teen pregnancy. Generally the outcomes aren’t great. SS also came from a fairly wealthy middle class family - very few girls in this demographic keep their pregnancies.

As for whether the dad is allowed an opinion I’m afraid he is. He can’t force a woman to have an abortion but he doesn’t have to be delighted about it. Again, it directly affects him.

These things aren’t really people being pressured in the sense of being forced. They might feel pressure because not everyone around them is happy about their pregnancy. So fucking what? That’s reality. Few parents will be happy that their teen gets pregnant. Few men who don’t want more kids will be happy when their partner gets pregnant. Doesn’t mean we ban abortion as a result.

Let’s clear up a few things.

I’m not actually anti-abortion, but there should be reasonable limits. There are many serious, devastating and valid exceptions for having one outside of those limits. I can’t begin to imagine what some families have gone through. Debating, questioning and reviewing current time limits thoroughly should always happen periodically, not least because our knowledge and neo-natal care keeps improving.

I have personally supported a friend through an abortion. We were 17, she chose to tell me alone over anyone, her own parents still to this day don’t know. I listened to her, accompanied her to hospital, never tried to change her mind and I never told anybody else. It was her decision.

I do worry that girls/women do not receive full information and support for a wide-range of options when in these difficult situations.

I do believe that we should behave responsibly and do our best to avoid needing one, and that applies to both men and women. They should ideally be a last resort, and not mask deeper issues and inequalities in society which should not be left to the individual to sort out alone. If abortion rates rise that’s a sign to me that there are deeper issues in our society.

I do believe that we should behave responsibly and do our best to avoid needing one, and that applies to both men and women
And yet the numbers increase year on year and those are not the young teenagers. The under 18 rate continues to go down, its the elder. Being irresponsible isn't such a big deal when the nhs pays. Over 40% have more than 1 abortion.

I'm sure that there have always been men suggesting that women have an abortion, even when abortion was illegal and the backstreet abortion that the woman had to go through was a risk to her life.

Making abortion illegal or greatly reducing the time limits won't make men any happier about unwanted pregnancies. They will still bully and coerce but if legal abortions are no longer available, the only abortion that the woman will be able to access will be illegal and unsafe.

Angela Rayner is also a role model, having had a child at 16.

Rayner also had a child born prematurely at 23 weeks. Yet she still supports abortion up to 24 weeks (and over where needed). Because she is pro-choice.

If your figure is true, do you think that 40% of women having an abortion is a figure that in a rich, developed country that we should be celebrating? It’s very concerning.

If your figure is true, do you think that 40% of women having an abortion is a figure that in a rich, developed country that we should be celebrating? It’s very concerning
I was being cynical 😄 I am for a society that allows abortions but I'm also for a society that takes individual responsibility. 250,000 abortions a year can't just be all vulnerable women who don't have access to contraception.

The fact that this is such an emotive subject is precisely why it has no place in politics.

I've said it before, but the abortion law should only be decided by medical experts, with input from women's groups.

I'm a confirmed Catholic, but I'd never want the Pope deciding our abortion laws; why would anyone want politicians deciding? It's a matter of medical ethics, which may differ from an individual's religious, political or moral beliefs, but you are free to choose those for yourself, you you shouldn't be able to force it upon others.

Sorry, are you saying that 40% of women 18+ have more than one abortion? Or 40% of women who have abortions have more than one? Do you have the stats?

I've a mate born at that gestation that is now a paediatrician!

And Angela Rayner had a son at 23 weeks, who is disabled. As someone upthread said, some will not be disabled, but many will.

How is it a dangerous message when she never said it?
You’re making stuff up to suit your own narrative.

She said she was glad she had the choice to choose when and by who she had her babies, that’s it. She urged other women to remember how important that choice is when they vote. She never, ever said she had an abortion, she was happy about it or she won an award because she had an abortion. Stop lying.

With a very serious disability?

Realistically though, as has been pointed out, this is so rare as to be pointless debating. even for disability/health reasons, most abortions happen LONG before this.

I volunteer on a hotline where I’ve personally spoken to many feeling the pressure in those exact situations. Start speaking to a wider range of women.

There really is no end to your anecdotes today. Though data they are not.

Throughout this thread, you have used emotion to support your argument and position, alongside some hyperbolic language and odd remarks, such as women boasting about abortion.

I know you will deny it, but you should really check your own misogyny, it is stark on most of your posts.

I mean the number of babies born at 22 weeks 25+ years ago will be staggeringly low.

How many women have you spoken to who feel pressured not to have an abortion? An I think if you are going to use your experience as a volunteer as evidence, you should say what organization runs the hotline.

Rational arguments don’t always trump emotional ones. Humans actually deny and ignore their emotions and instincts far more these days. It’s definitely OK to not do something or disagree with something because you find it upsetting. We are humans, AI robots haven’t taken over yet fortunately!