Brother has found parents’ wills

[ChorltonCreamery]

My mother tripped over a few days ago. Initially all seemed fine. Friend brought her home but the next day she went to a walk in. It was felt that she might need a procedure on her wrist.

What I only found out yesterday was that Dad rang one of my brothers to go through his desk to find this policy they have, a medical insurance that kicks in if NHS waiting list is too long. In the process of doing this he found their wills and read them.

Yesterday Brother asked if I could go round to his but I couldn’t as we are away. This afternoon sister texts me to call her back, it turns our parents have divided their estate into four. Three quarters between brother, sister and me with a quarter going to other brother’s child(ren) with us three acting as trustees.

Brother 2 is not included, we think because sister in law has two children from previous marriage and there has been drama from them.

Brother wants me and sister to meet for a chat about everything.

He says that the wills were not in a marked file and he had to go through lots of stuff in order to find the insurance.

I don’t know what to think, or what I am meant to think. Sisters annoyed with brother for even telling us.

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More entitled tosh. You just don't get it. It's their money to leave to whomever they like - including Battersea Dog's Home! There is no requirement for them to discuss the contents of their Wills with anyone other than their solicitor or Will writer.
Last year, two weeks before his death, my father changed his Will disinheriting me and my two siblings and leaving everything to his third wife and we couldn't care less because it was his estate, to leave to whomever he chose, and we respect his decision (and that it was his decision alone to make).
Maybe you and your family members should lower your expectations of any entitlement to dead people's money so that when you're disappointed it doesn't "hugely impact family relationships negatively". 🙄

I'm not sure there's anything good that can come from this and your DB has lumped something on you that you can't really do much with.

At the end of the day it's their money. If I'd married someone with kids and made a family that way I'd be aiming to treat those kids as my own so knowing my parents didn't accept them as my family to such an extent that they'd cut me out of their will to only benefit biological children would be heartbreaking. I hope that none of you in future decide to adopt etc or end up meeting someone who already has kids. I think your parents have acted very badly to do this and it would absolutely change my opinion on them. But it's their call ultimately. They've really set you all up for a serious family implosion in the wake of their deaths.

The problem now is if your db 2 ever finds out that you all knew and kept him in the dark - that just adds another level of betrayal to it all.

Your brother did not have to read such a personal document but he chose to. Could not help himself, clearly.

Now he holds information that he should not be privy to and wants to share it with others.

If my kids betrayed my trust in that way I’d disinherit them and give anything I had to charity.

How bloody invasive, presumptuous and entitled of him.

That document is an expression of your parent’s wishes and It’s their money to gift as they see fit.

Of course, he can always ask for himself to be removed from the will if he feels that strongly about it.

@Yellowpens I couldn't agree more. OP's sister is annoyed with their DB's behaviour - not only did he read private documents which he shouldn't have, he's now burdened his two sisters with the knowledge of what he's read. He's clearly a nosy blabbermouth who can't be trusted. I hope his parents never find out - they'd be so disappointed in him.

So you are able to keep this secret from your brother for the rest of your relationship, what kind of family are you? It's so sad to see how parents, even after death, still use money to control their adult children, and how siblings also accept it, I guess money really brings out the ugliest thing in people. And yes, now we all know that it is their money and that they can do whatever they want with it, that does not take away the fact that it is something disgusting to do to a loved one.

You wrote "Perhaps, the best way this couple can help their son and his children is to give the inheritance directly to the grandchildren." which is precisely what they've done, so why are you suggesting it? How have I misread this?

Well, that is terrible advice to give to them. While legally correct of course, it’s obviously extremely damaging for them not to think about the impact on their children and grandchildren and the legacy that they will leave emotionally and in terms of relationships, as well as financially.

No decent person would want to cause such damage to relationships in subsequent generations of their family but some people just don’t think these things through so require prompting to actually think about the implications, particularly when (as in this case) there are alternatives available which would achieve their (assumed by the OP) aim of protecting family assets (when their current plan will not), and would avoid the risk of causing strife and upset and broken relationships and unnecessary stress for their children. This is also why transparency and having these discussions with all involved while you are alive and well is essential for things to be managed appropriately

It’s an extremely false economy to destroy your family for the sake of the cost of a few of hours of tax and legacy planning advice from independent advisors, or to think that the fees for trust administration would not be money vastly well spent in comparison to putting this kind of burden on your children when they are a small proportion of the inheritance value (if it’s anything significant enough to even prompt any concern or a post like OP’s) and nothing in comparison to the value of the family relationship’s that a plan like the OP’s parent’s current plan will likely destroy.

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No, it's the entitled attitude of people expecting to inherit that's disgusting.

No it’s the entitled opinion that a parent cannot decide to distribute their money in a way that they feel appropriate. Four children can be treated differently for all manner of reasons. Most are justifiable.

What’s the problem? You are each getting your share and your other brother’s share is going direct to his children, who should get it anyway eventually barring complications, other women, etc. Don’t really see why your brother needs a confab at all (but you may as well humour him - it won’t hurt); it’s your dad’s money and he can do as he likes with it. If he has to go into a home for any length of time there might not be any left to share out anyway.

Is this not the advice you are given where step families are involved. Your brother could inherit, die, wife inherits all and leaves to her children. Not your brothers children who get nothing. It not uncommon whatsoever for this to happen with step families. Especially if children are adults when family blend.

So, parents leave it to the son in question, he dies without a Will, the wife gets most of it and dies without a Will or remarries rendering anty Will she made null and void and HER kids get it all, leaving husbands children without anything.
it’s called sideways disinheritance and is not uncommon.
How is ensuring this doesn’t happen bad advice.
Also the trustees can decide to step down and employ professional Trustees in their place, thereby removing the issue you are getting airiated by.

I largely disagree with your main point; I don't feel that the grandparents have acted badly in any way at all.

However, I do totally agree with your final sentence that:

"The problem now is if your db 2 ever finds out that you all knew and kept him in the dark - that just adds another level of betrayal to it all."

If it ever came out that the siblings knew about this (and DB2 didn't) then that would cause all sorts of problems.

Just as an example, my parents did change their will (actually to exclude my children, their grandchildren). I was angry at them but resigned to the fact that it was entirely their choice.

What really hurt though was that it turned out that my sibling was entirely aware of this change many years earlier and, I suspect, was instrumental in changing the will. My anger was very much directed towards my sibling rather than my parents.

I think that it was really shitty of the elder brother to embroil his sisters in all of this. That is really going to sour any future relations between them and DB2.

@angelickaty I think you're confusing people with robots here as are some other pps. I think most people would be really hurt if their parents decided to go down this route - not because of the amount of money etc but because of what it says their parents feel about their family and their kids.

You just don’t get that any decent human being wouldn’t want their legacy to be creating stress and unhappiness and family disputes and upset from beyond the grave. To try to use money as a weapon in this manner as your final act in this world takes a special kind of unpleasantness and is kind neither to the relatives who do inherit or those who don’t. This just isn’t what decent people do, or even contemplate. It’s very rarely to achieve a legitimate aim in terms of protecting assets for family members: as has been pointed out in the OP’s case, there are ways to achieve this (which the parents’ current plan will not, anyway) without creating these huge problems and upset for all of their children, and likely their grandchildren also. People who behave like this almost always do so out of spite, and try to make implausible excuses to themselves to justify it because they won’t admit that to themselves. There’s no need for it, and sensible people or kind or decent people wouldn’t even contemplate it, hence (presumably) the OP’s brother’s shock at discovering his the plan to disinherit his brother and drag all of the other children into this nasty plan and be asked to administer it on the parents’ behalf.

It should be obvious that no normal parent would do such a thing to any of their children and that these people are either very mentally unwell, or very spiteful, or severely lacking in knowledge of the options that would achieve their aims in terms of asset protection comprehension of the consequences of doing what their will states.

If it’s either of the first two there’s not much that can be done about it, but nobody should be pretending it’s acceptable. If it’s the third then perhaps a few hundred pounds spent on independent advice might make them extremely glad that they realised how to a) protect family assets, and b) avoid unnecessary trauma to their children, and make appropriate plans instead.

Of course it’s their decision. If they choose to do something stupid and vindictive then nobody can stop them or ask them to do otherwise. But giving the benefit of the doubt they may just not realise how stupid their current will is and if they are nice people will be horrified when they realise the implications and will take appropriate independent advice and put sensible arrangements in place.

Explain why you think this will not achieve the parents aims please?

Nope. I suggested the inheritance is divided equally between trusts for each of the four children and their children (if applicable) so all are treated equally. The brother in question’s wife and her children would have no access to it at all. Trustees should be independent and not family members.

If you’d actually read my posts you would have seen that I stated it’s completely irresponsible for anybody even to remarry without ensuring they have appropriate arrangements like this in place to ensure that their own children get their own assets (i.e. the assets from the parent, not grandparent), rather than their new spouse receiving them, never mind inheritances from the grandparents.

You are coming across as rather aggressive and argumentative and are making a lot of assumptions.

Re "Maybe you and your family members should lower your expectations of any entitlement to dead people's money so that when you're disappointed it doesn't "hugely impact family relationships negatively". You are referring to my deceased parents there in a very disrespectful way and making huge assumptions. My parents have both died and their inheritance did not cause any issues within my family. I was not referring to what I have seen in my family I was referring to others.

Im really happy that you and your family did not mind at all when "Last year, two weeks before his death, my father changed his Will disinheriting me and my two siblings and leaving everything to his third wife". I'm sure his 3rd wife and her family were extremely pleased also. I am surprised that the timing of this did not raise any concerns to you whatsoever. Inheritances are hugely important for life chances and social mobility re education, careers, housing, health etc - particularly when the cost of everything is rising. It is called inheritance equality. A few articles here about it:
https://ifs.org.uk/articles/family-fortunes-inherited-wealth-stands-way-social-mobility

https://ifs.org.uk/sites/default/files/output_url_files/R188-Inheritances-and-inequality-over-the-lifecycle%252520%2525281%252529.pdf

In your circumstances your Dads 3rd wife's family will have their life's chances improved and those of their children and childrens children etc. Its worth you having a listen to the BBC Sounds Will detectives.

I wont be responding to any more of your messages as they are just hostile, but I do hope that you spend a little time doing some reading around it. Either way best of luck with things.

It should be obvious that no normal parent would do such a thing to any of their children and that these people are either very mentally unwell, or very spiteful, or severely lacking in knowledge of the options that would achieve their aims in terms of asset protection comprehension of the consequences of doing what their will states.

what a load of absolute bollocks, they’re none of those things and are perfectly sane, normal not spiteful etc and made a decision to ensure their money goes to the ones they want.

If this is your definition of extremely mentally unwell, you’ve lived a very strange and sheltered life!

Honestly, the vileness of your description is astonishing.

Get a grip.

The OP stated early in the thread that she thinks that the reason the parents have done this is a concern about the disinherited brother’s wife and his children getting a share of the assets rather than blood relatives.

The OP stated early in the thread that she thinks that the reason the parents have done this is a concern about the disinherited brother’s wife and his children getting a share of the assets rather than blood relatives.

It won’t ensure the money goes to the ones they want it to, though, as has been pointed out multiple times during the thread if you bothered to read it.

I’ve read the thread, it’s going to the GC, which is what they want?

I think that there are two issues here. What the parents have actually put in the will, and their decision to keep in private is one thing. We are all going to have opinions on that.

More important IMO is reading someone else's private papers without their permission. and with no reasonable explanation and THEN sharing what you read again without permission or explanation. Regardless of what is in the will I reckon thats unforgiveable and I could never trust that person again. Its not just a breach of trust its sharing that breach of trust around. Horrible thing to do.

If you have read it, you clearly haven’t understood much of what was posted on it.