To wonder if there's any actual evidence that's trans women are not safe in male loos?

[Evedence]

I feel, as a FWR lurker, that I would have seen linked articles to bank up the fact that trans identifying men aren't safe in men's loos, and therefore that's the rational why women should budge up and accept trans identifying men in their spaces.

I'm pretty sure with a quick Google I could fund evident that trans identity men have made women's spaces unsafe (Kate delowski? The one who worked for a charity and made a masturbation video).

So AIBU to wonder what hard evidence there is?

No, f#@k that.

Clarify, please.

Yes. They can use the toilettjat matches their actual sex.

Or stay home.

I think people really need to explain what they mean when they say “unsafe”.
The usual meaning is “at risk, that something is dangerous” which is definitely not the same as feeling unhappy or a bit uncomfortable about something.

Virtually no trans women "pass" (even the ones who took puberty blockers as children), and if you actually believe that masculine presenting women are suddenly being challenged in women's toilets you are incredible gullible.

Don't women get a say?

We don't want men in our facilities however they identify.

They can campaign for 3rd spaces if they don't feel safe in the men's toilets/ changing rooms.

That's a bit like saying that I should be able to choose how much I pay for my shopping, depending on how much money I have at the time, how much I reckon the food should cost and just how generous I'm feeling overall - and Sainsbury's don't get any say whatsoever in how much people pay them in order to take away their goods.

Don't be silly.

The only women who matter are the ones with penises.

No, it bloody isn't. Said trans person can play by the rules, just like the rest of us 😬

I see toilets as the gateway agenda. Its easier to argue for access to them (ad everyone needs toilets, its cubicles etc) and then that makes it easier for them to insist on things such as open plan changing rooms, or womens shelters, or prisons, or hospital wards etc where there isn't cubicles.

Trans people are far more likely to be victims than perpetrators of violence.

Cobalt was assaulted by a man

Two women assaulted a transgender person in a womens toilet

Trans man attacked by men for using women’s bathroom

As I said, trans people should use whatever they feel comfortable with given the risk / venue / context.

Imagine a world where men, all men respected the right of women to have single sex spaces.

Where the policy was good men stay out so bad men stand out.

Imagine if the nice men that you know decided that you and your granddaughter has a right to a toilet space with no men. Not even them.

Just imagine.

No need for a minimum standard of "passing.

No need to have any type of genital inspectors.

You would not need to worry about ID ( which means nothing when the State and other bodies issue ID with false data ) because your nice men friends just respected the rules.

This.

I do actually have a lot of sympathy for trans women not wanting to use the men's toilets. However, I don't think they belong in the women's loos either. The obvious answer is for them to use a third, gender-neutral space. Unfortunately, my understanding is that most trans women don't want to use a gender-neutral toilet. They want the validation of using the ladies' facilities!

Exactly. That’s something for men to sort out among themselves. I’m busy dealing with actual women’s issues, like women’s single-sex spaces and ensuring that ‘women’ continue to exist as a legal category.

I don't see how they would be any less safe than an effeminate gay man and they're not demanding that women should be a human shield for them. 🤷🏻‍♀️

There's a transwoman on Twitter who documents his visits to the male toilets. I think he's now at over a 1000 visits with no incidents.

It's not about the toilets themselves at all; it's about the people who are (legitimately) using them and/or wanting what somebody else possesses, regardless of how the rightful owners feel about that.

This!
Well said.

And the women at risk from the trans person…..don’t they matter ?

This.

Trans people constitute just 0.55% of the UK population yet are 4 times more likely to experience violence than cisgender people.

They should have the freedom to mitigate that risk which is significant.

But untrue.

Evidence?

As I said, trans people should use whatever they feel comfortable with given the risk / venue / context

So you're advocating for trans people to break the law are you?

How is this women's fault?

The 2nd of the cases I shared in the post you quoted is clearly women’s fault.