To wonder if there's any actual evidence that's trans women are not safe in male loos?

[Evedence]

I feel, as a FWR lurker, that I would have seen linked articles to bank up the fact that trans identifying men aren't safe in men's loos, and therefore that's the rational why women should budge up and accept trans identifying men in their spaces.

I'm pretty sure with a quick Google I could fund evident that trans identity men have made women's spaces unsafe (Kate delowski? The one who worked for a charity and made a masturbation video).

So AIBU to wonder what hard evidence there is?

No! It doesn't matter how 'unsafe' they are on men's loos. It could be the most dangerous place on earth but frankly, I couldn't give a shit. They need to make their own spaces, not take ours. Male on male violence is NOT a problem for women to solve or shield GNC men from.

I was thinking about this recently and concluded that we would all be a lot better off if the activists had campaigned for a third space instead of fighting to use ours. As a mum and grand mum there have been occasions when I haven’t wanted my boys to go into the men’s loos on their own but have also been reluctant to take them in with me. A neutral space would have been ideal.

That's a conversation for the men.

Because disabled provision is awful already and those of us who genuinely need those toilets have no other alternative

In Tenerife they are. A big black woman was ENCOURAGING men into the women's toilets at a club. Suffice to say, I didn't oblige.

Okay, so on the basis on that question then - where is the evidence that transwomen are more at risk in the men’s toilets than other men? The odd anecdotal article doesn’t actually show any stats or evidence that they are more at risk than men in general - including boys, effeminate gay men, men with disabilities and so on.

And yes, we fully support them having their own space if they wish to campaign for it. It’s not women rejecting that idea.

No it is not up to the transperson. It is not up to an individual to decide if the law applies to them or of they can ignore it. Or of their wants are more important than the effects of their actions on other people.

The UK law is clear and it is amazing how many people and organisations seem to think they are above the law.

Then maybe individual unisex toilets? I'm sure everyone would much prefer that than to be surrounded by potential perverts.

Funnily enough womens lives DO actually depend on being able to tell someones sex so I am 10/10 certain I can
And where did I "slate someones looks"?
Is it offensive not to pretend we can't tell what sex someone is?

Women have to moderate their clothes, behaviour and language to protect themselves from men all the time. Does that not sound sensible to you?

Regardless, there is no need for men who identify as women to use the ladies. They can use the men’s (with very few problems) or the unisex provision. High profile trans ppl like Fionne Orlander or Miranda Yardley have reported no problems in the men’s. Men dress up as women quite frequently- stag dos, theme night fancy dress parties - they’re all fine.

They're not as safe as unisex toilets with gaps under the cubicle doors.

Holy fuck have you heard yourself.. A BIG BLACK WOMAN!! what the hell has colour got to do with this topic, you racist arsehole!!!

Transwomen are biological men!

How is that racist? 🙄

Incorrect.

That ship has sailed.

How is it not?
Would you have referenced her colour if she were white?

More to the point, it doesn't make a whole lot of difference when women do it, because women are raped every day wearing burkhas and bikinis and every type of clothing in between.

Dressing more modestly might give women the illusion of being more safe, but there is no evidence that it works. Men attack us because we are female and therefore vulnerable, and they are male and therefore powerful. They do it because they can.

A woman wearing jeans and a T-shirt looks like a woman wearing jeans and a T-shirt.

A trans woman wearing jeans and a T-shirt looks like a man wearing jeans and a T-shirt.

So surely trans women can significantly mitigate the alleged risk they face of male violence, simply by wearing jeans and a T-shirt.

That's not an option available to women. If it were, I'm sure most of us would take it.

Yes? 😐

@Tekknonan the % of TW who have had any surgery at all is minute. Plus surgery doesn't remove male physical advantage in a violent situation. Are you aware of the % of TW in prison for sex crimes.

Transwomen are biological men. So the question is moot.

If they stopped appropriating womanhood they wouldn't be in this position.

If someone walked around blacked up in London and got beaten up it would hardly be a surprise, less tolerance for appropriation these days.

Here you go! It is rather unpleasant reading so you will need to steel yourself - poor little girl.

metro.co.uk/2019/03/16/transgender-woman-18-sexually-assaulted-girl-10-morrisons-toilet-8914577/

MN Talk guidelines say we aren't allowed to say people are liars

Another faux innocent thread to get your point across. Cool.

What does faux innocent mean?

I haven't. 🙄