To have not realised prayers in school was still a thing?

[UnreadyEthel]

DS1 (5) started school in September. One of the reasons I chose the school was that it had no obvious religious affiliation, while another good school in the area is a Christian school. We are secular.

This morning DS1 mentioned over breakfast that they say prayers at school before they eat lunch. I was absolutely gobsmacked. It’s not something I’ve ever come across in non-religious schools (and I have worked in plenty, mainly in cities). DH, who is from the rural area we now live in, was less surprised. ‘I had to do it all the way through school and it never harmed me’. I have sent a polite email to the headteacher asking for clarification of their policies.

DS2 (3) attends the very small nursery next to the school. I asked at pickup today whether they say prayers there and the nursery teacher said ‘yes, of course’. When I asked if DS2 could opt out please she said they’d never come across the situation before, and whether I wanted her to tell him off if he joined in out of habit! I wonder whether they haven’t come across another child who wanted to opt out before because other parents aren’t aware it’s going on? And because they obviously haven’t read the forms I filled in when he enrolled. I also asked what they would do if there was a child of a different religion, but she didn’t know.

AIBU to think this is an outdated practice? Or should I just accept it’s something that comes with raising children in a more rural area of the UK?

In name only.

In reality the UK is secular and has been for a long time.

Religion - outside of RE - has no place in a non-religious state school. It's utterly ridiculous that it's still the law to have an act of daily worship. Thankfully most schools entirely ignore it.

We’ve changed 4 schools through frequent moving so far. 3 independent and non religious and a religious state school, mixture of rural and cities. In every single one prayers were part of their day to day school life. We are atheists, but I couldn’t care less about the kids praying. What’s the harm?

Well it is…you’re joining in with CRISTmas and giving presents as per the nativity. Chocolate eggs at Easter I presume- you know, to symbolise the stone rolled away from Jesus’ tomb and new life? It’s ok OP, no one minds if you join in.
Um no…the pressure from you. Children are generally very happy joining in with all the little things that happen at school on repeat. Your child won’t have given it a second thought. You telling them they can’t join in will cause the pressure when they feel conflicted.
Reading your other posts, you do seem very hostile towards religion/people who practice their faith. Likening Christianity to a cult. Quite intolerant of you OP.

Why haven’t you thought about it?

Are you happy to tell your children Santa's Claus is real?

Likening Christianity to a cult. Quite intolerant of you OP

No need to "liken" anything. Christianity is the cult of Jesus Christ.

Thats interesting.

Yeah….nah…it’s not though. But it’s ok, not everyone has done their research or wants to open their mind.

No, not really. I’ll say “I’m Santa” and DH says “no, I’m Santa!” etc.

You really think easter eggs started as a way to represent the stone that rolled away from Jesus's tomb?

Eggs were used symbolically to represent death and rebirth (and therefore tie in with spring) long before Jesus. We don't all have to give up on eggs because Christianity clung onto the coattails of ancient cultures.

Of course it is.

The primary definition of "cult" is -

"a system of religious veneration and devotion directed towards a particular figure or object"

So what is the problem then

Worked in church and non church schools and am surprised that they say prayers if not a religiously affiliated one. Are they said in the classroom ? It could be just that clear teacher.

There have been loads of "I don't want my children doing anything religious" threads over the years, but we haven't had one for a while. Only on Mumsnet would someone be "absolutely gobsmacked" by this. Others have been
"I don't want MIL indoctrinating my DC by giving them a Noah's Ark toy."
"I don't want the existence of someone's imaginary friend being taught as fact."
"I don't understand how otherwise intelligent people believe in God."

I don't understand why some Mumsnetters are so het up about this. Some people pray, others don't.

Jesus isn’t a figure or object though. I mean, it’s a fun idea, but it’s not correct to say Christianity is a cult. Faith in God is very widespread throughout the world. Much deliberation on the specifics, but nevertheless, many people have it and choose to engage in some form of organised expression of their faith. But if you/OP doesn’t believe in any of it, then why worry?

In any case, we have it from God himself that he doesn't like "grovelling debasement".

"Oh, don't grovel! One thing I can't stand, it's people grovelling. And don't apologise! Every time I try to talk to someone it's sorry this, forgive me that, and I am not worthy."

Not suggesting anyone gives up on chocolate Easter eggs (that’d be sad). Fill your boots! But maybe don’t stress so much about primary school one line thank you prayers when you’re busy celebrating at least two Christian festivals every year 😀

Probably because I myself had to do prayers at school when I was a child possibly, and they weren’t as quick a catchy song.
My children attend c of e primary schools both secondary and primary, they don’t attend church with us.
I’ve always seen it as them being taught a different view and it’s up to them to decide when they are older what they believe.
I didn’t get them christened when they were babies as I don’t follow a faith, however with the catchment schools being c of e they are learning about various faiths not just Church of England.

Jesus isn’t a figure or object though

Well if you are contending Jesus did not exist, I'm inclined to agree with you.

but it’s not correct to say Christianity is a cult

Going by how cults are defined and what Christian worship involves, then yes, it is both correct and appropriate to describe Christianity as a cult.

But if you/OP doesn’t believe in any of it, then why worry?

I wouldn't describe myself as worried in any way, more irritated that it's another example of religion being foisted upon people who do not share that belief, and people who don't believe being expected to participate or excuse themselves. Why should it not be that the religious excuse themselves then go off and pray or do whatever it is they want to do? After all, the Christians are the minority.

Well, yes. But the God and the Amen are there-so it’s not just a thank you, is it?

I personally want to live in a world where children are taught to be critical thinkers. It’s one thing to teach children about various religions. Children participating in rituals without truly understating them is highly disturbing.

to head of the question, we played the “Santa game” at my house. We still do. We never claimed
there was an actual magical man who delivered presents. We participated in a cultural tradition without lying to our child.

It is the same in Wales as in England. A daily act of worship that must be wholly or mostly Christian in nature.
For most schools that’s covered in assembly rather than by saying grace, but however they do it, it’s the law.
I agree with you that it’s ridiculous. A law enacted in 1944 that’s no longer relevant when less than 50% of the uk said they would consider themselves Christian in the last census. Write to your MP.
there was a member of the House of Lords campaigning to get the law changed but I’m not sure how far they got.

But saying prayers at school and believing in magic & Santa as a child doesn’t stop you from becoming a critical thinker .

Ok friend, come back to me when you’ve gotten beyond the top search result on google for ‘definition of a cult’. Lots of research papers, studies, informed opinion pieces etc.

In the vast majority of places/circumstances, people of faith do just that. But given that we live in a Christian country, it’s hardly surprising that there are sone elements of it in everyday life. I’m not really sure who “the religious” are, it’s such an outdated term. Jesus was not a fan of the religious Pharisees.

The UK is not a Christian country.

Head of State is head of the Anglican Church, but the Anglican Church is not even the pre-eminent church across the entirety of the UK. The citizenry is what actually counts insofar as determining what a State or Country can be said to be, and since the majority of the citizens of all of the constituent parts of the UK, and therefore the UK as a whole, are not Christian, it's a complete nonsense to assert the UK is a "Christian Country".

Which particular definition of the word would you like?