To have not realised prayers in school was still a thing?

[UnreadyEthel]

DS1 (5) started school in September. One of the reasons I chose the school was that it had no obvious religious affiliation, while another good school in the area is a Christian school. We are secular.

This morning DS1 mentioned over breakfast that they say prayers at school before they eat lunch. I was absolutely gobsmacked. It’s not something I’ve ever come across in non-religious schools (and I have worked in plenty, mainly in cities). DH, who is from the rural area we now live in, was less surprised. ‘I had to do it all the way through school and it never harmed me’. I have sent a polite email to the headteacher asking for clarification of their policies.

DS2 (3) attends the very small nursery next to the school. I asked at pickup today whether they say prayers there and the nursery teacher said ‘yes, of course’. When I asked if DS2 could opt out please she said they’d never come across the situation before, and whether I wanted her to tell him off if he joined in out of habit! I wonder whether they haven’t come across another child who wanted to opt out before because other parents aren’t aware it’s going on? And because they obviously haven’t read the forms I filled in when he enrolled. I also asked what they would do if there was a child of a different religion, but she didn’t know.

AIBU to think this is an outdated practice? Or should I just accept it’s something that comes with raising children in a more rural area of the UK?

Utter lack of respect for others. Not very Christian.

I'm not a Christian, so it would logically follow that my posts are not Christian...

I went to a Welsh primary school and we said a daily prayer. It was usually to give thanks and gratitude for our food, we also said the “our father” prayer in Welsh.

The requirement for daily collective worship in primary schools is mandated by the School Standards and Framework Act 1998, specifically Section 70 and Schedule 20.

If it’s any consolation, I don’t think it had any impact on me and my beliefs. I had a great curiosity for religion and anthropology and went on to study Islam and Buddhism in my A-Level years. Perhaps the wider issue was the rural nature of the area I grew up in, it was not a diverse school, and it wasn’t a diverse area. Rather than tell your children to remain silent whilst everyone else says a prayer, I would encourage them to ask questions, to be curious and to be open to hear other people’s views.

I now have friends from all over the world who have differing views to one another, and from my own, but key here is that we respect one another. We ask questions and we are not afraid to join in with something to show support for one another. I have attended church days for example. It didn’t make me any more a Christian than attending the mosque made me a Muslim but it gave me insight into the world of my friends.

In short, promote curiosity, acceptance, respect.

Not thanking God.

Being thankful.

You don’t have to believe in God to be grateful or thankful or to appreciate life.

Or do you…

Wah wah Christianity is so persecuted (but also the majority religion in the UK) and everyone is so mean about it (but it's forced on children in the majority of schools in the UK) poor you 😢

I wonder whether they haven’t come across another child who wanted to opt out before

Does the child want to opt out, or the parent?

Ha ha. Was that the "Benedictus, Benedicat per Jesum Christum Dominum Nostrum" one?

I encountered that at Uni too. This wasn't some posh Oxbridge college either. I went to Manchester but spent my first year in a very traditional women's hall. We used to have that grace once a week at least. This was 1980s.

Before that, when I was primary school age, we just used to say "For what we are about to receive may the Lord make us truly thankful." Just words. Never really been religious.

I suppose if you take God out of it then there is maybe something not altogether bad about having a moment of reflection before a meal to appreciate it.

So why involve what to many people is an imaginary god?

So do you not do a nativity at Christmas? Or Christmas cards etc as I’m assuming you don’t celebrate these, if they’ve ever come home with Christmas cards you would have probably found out then that they’re Christian (the school)

Do only Christians send Christmas cards?

I think of all the “frequent flyers” on Mumsnet, this is the most baffling. I am reluctant to think some posters are being disingenuous, so I will assume good faith and try to clarify.

A pause for reflection before meals, and expressing gratitude to the people who provide the food and for the fact that we are, unlike many others, in a position where we have food to eat is a very good thing to do.

Learning about different faiths, including Christianity is a very good thing to do. It helps us understand each other, and is necessary to understand a lot of art and literature and philosophy. It’s also very interesting.

Celebrating together at times significant to the culture we live in is a very good thing to do. Some of these celebrations will have their origins in Christianity because Christianity has been the dominant religion in the UK for a very long time.

None of these things should require asserting a belief in a particular God, or offering prayers to a particular God. They should include everyone, believers and non believers. Nobody should be excluded from any part of the school day because of their faith or lack of it.

I find some of the responses interesting. I find it odd that someone thinks it acceptable to participate in Christmas, nativity plays and easter but object to a child saying grace. All of the above are part of the Christian tradition and culture even if one doesn't believe. Truthfully, I think don't praying at lunch time is going radicalise your child. People pray to god even if they aren't religious, especially if in emergency or desperate situation

Super, I’ll check it out!

Have you been thinking all these years that people who buy Christmas presents for each other, decorate their houses with lights at Christmas, have turkey and Christmas stockings, enjoy watching their children in a cute centuries old seasonal play, eat Easter eggs and possibly even hot cross buns are all actual practicing / believing Christians? Haven’t you noticed that these things are just as popular as ever, while the number of actual Christians on the census has been declining year on year?

Just to disabuse you - no, just because people join in some of the cultural traditions of a country does not mean they believe in the religion. It would be odd if they went to church a lot over these times, told the children they believed Jesus was real but only for Xmas and Easter. But that’s not what’s happening.

We celebrate Christmas as a time for presents, parties, family time, good food and drinks
Nativity play - the children love to put on a play and perform
Easter - good excuse for too much chocolate
For our family none of these events have any religious significance and of course we wouldn’t pray to an imaginary god even in an emergency.

My children attended a Catholic school, many children opt out of the prayer, they can say a few words of gratitude to their own God/Parents/families or sit in silence.

It is more an act/acknowledgement of gratitude.

All children attend the fun parts of communion and confirmation, photographs and cake, the children who aren't Catholic get to wear their own clothing, culture or fashion, it is important to be inclusive.

DD now attending educate together, no prayers.

There are plenty of hymns I don’t know but ones like The Lord is my Shepherd and Jerusalem are really common.

It’s possible to read the bible out of interest but most people won’t. If someone has never sat through a bit of pi-jaw in assembly, will they be able to get references to feeding the 5,000 as adults?

So much of our history is tied to religion. It’s easier to understand the Tudors and Stuarts if you’ve engaged in some collective worship (which probably won’t make you a believer).

I realize school dinners can be a bit grim sometimes, but I wouldn’t describe them as a desperate situation or an emergency!

Christianity is the basis of most of your beliefs. You may not like that but it’s intrinsically wrapped up with western morality.

Christianity and it’s beliefs centre around god - as an atheist they don’t play any part in my life.

I don't believe in other things but still go along with traditions as they are fun.
Chritstmas was purposely placed onto of other calendar events - the mid winter solstice - that had Yule logs and such - so the midwinter festival has both pagen and christian elements

You’re quite wrong. The moral system in which you grew up is Christian, you can’t be unaffected by it.

We’ll have to agree to disagree. Christianity/jesus/god play no part in my life and never will.

You can not believe in Jesus or God, entirely up to you. But Christianity is embedded in the social and moral structures of the Western world.

As I posted - we disagree on this.