To have not realised prayers in school was still a thing?

[UnreadyEthel]

DS1 (5) started school in September. One of the reasons I chose the school was that it had no obvious religious affiliation, while another good school in the area is a Christian school. We are secular.

This morning DS1 mentioned over breakfast that they say prayers at school before they eat lunch. I was absolutely gobsmacked. It’s not something I’ve ever come across in non-religious schools (and I have worked in plenty, mainly in cities). DH, who is from the rural area we now live in, was less surprised. ‘I had to do it all the way through school and it never harmed me’. I have sent a polite email to the headteacher asking for clarification of their policies.

DS2 (3) attends the very small nursery next to the school. I asked at pickup today whether they say prayers there and the nursery teacher said ‘yes, of course’. When I asked if DS2 could opt out please she said they’d never come across the situation before, and whether I wanted her to tell him off if he joined in out of habit! I wonder whether they haven’t come across another child who wanted to opt out before because other parents aren’t aware it’s going on? And because they obviously haven’t read the forms I filled in when he enrolled. I also asked what they would do if there was a child of a different religion, but she didn’t know.

AIBU to think this is an outdated practice? Or should I just accept it’s something that comes with raising children in a more rural area of the UK?

What harm though? You haven't said how it can harm? My DC goes to a Catholic school, he still learns about other religions and he is not Catholic, he said there are only a few children in the school who do actually have faith.

Can you actually force someone to pray though? Even if they repeat the words unless they have some faith to attach them to then really they are nothing more than a nice verse.

When DS was in primary school they had a visit from a Mosque which involved them using prayer mats and seeing how they are used by Muslims. Taking part in the activity didn’t make him Muslim it just helped him understand a small part of another faith.

You're overreacting. We used to do prayer at lunchtime and sometimes assembly. It was literally "dear god, thank you for the food we're about to eat amen". We weren't a religious school. As a Hindu it never bothered us. My Muslim friend would also pray. They'd just put their hands together like this 🤲 and the rest of us like this 🙏.

I’m with you OP, I feel sick seeing my children there hands clasped together grovelling to god, but I don’t want to withdraw them because I don’t want them to be singled out, DD went through a Jesus is great phase but I expect she will grow out of it like most people our age have.

Why does religion need to be in schools at all? No other private institution (I wont go into academies) are a forced part of our education system. If you send your child to a Catholic or CoE school you expect it, this is a secular school. I don’t agree with any religious bodies having any control or input in any schools.

Well the most obvious is that if they are taught religion as fact that they then become religious.

If it’s presented in such a way as to make it clear that it’s optional and not necessarily factual then fine, but because I didn’t know it was going on it was effectively compulsory for my DC.

The majority of the uk population aren’t Christians so does seem odd to me.

I work in a c of e school and lead on church school distinctiveness. We invite the children to pray during worship time i.e. by saying if you want to make the pray your own, you can join in with amen at the end but they are not expected to join in with spoken prayers or say amen if they don't want to. We expect the children to be respectful during the prayer and reflection. We don't pray at lunch or at the end of the day and I don't know any c.e. schools locally who do. As a parent, you retain the legal right to withdraw your child from acts of collective worship and I would take this to mean lunchtime prayers.

Anyone who thinks their DC are going to a secular state school needs to pay attention. The daily act of worship won't give them religion, but as a pp says, the religious character of the school really pivots around the headteacher and their faith, or lack thereof. You can have zealots at schools with no religious affiliation, and atheists leading church schools. Nothing should be taken for granted.
You can of course withdraw your DC from acts of worship, but do be clear about the implications of this. It might mean more than simply taking them out of the room when there are prayers.
I'm not religious or a fan of religion in schools, but if it was an effective form of proselyting, there would be a lot more professed Christians in the UK.

I attended a very very rural school in west wales, many of the children were christian but it was not a specifically christian school. We prayed three times a day, morning, lunch time prayer and end of the day. I recently found out from my son that they do not say grace before lunch at his new school and I was gob-smacked about that!

Are you just trolling every post today? I've seen you stir up trouble on another thread already. Get a life.

The majority of the UK actually are Christian according to census, second most common being “no religion”

Just out of curiosity, (no judgement just a genuine interest) what makes you feel sick?

Are you going to be against all religious references? Christmas play, Christmas parties, Easter egg hunts....in my experience this little prayer means nothing to children once they're over about 7 or 8 - they just do it and never give it a thought.
Do you celebrate Christmas and Easter?

46.5% (according to the '21-'22 Census) is not a majority.

This is also just the figure for E&W, in Scotland the figure was around 38% claiming to be Christian, with 51% "no religion".

Given Christianity has been in decline for years, I'd imagine that even 3-4 years on the figure would be even lower.

How can it truly build a sense of belonging? Are you really convinced that every child in that room is a believer?

This is precisely why religion and prayer has no place in school. Even if the parents follow the religion, the children may not. It creates a situation where children are going to be othered every single day in the place where they are supposed to be focused on learning.

it is the exact opposite of creating a sense of community. People who follow at least a vaguely Christian ethos can never seem to understand that though.

Honestly, I think telling your child that he should remain quiet during the prayers is a bit unfair on him, he's only young.
Perhaps offer that to him as an option? Then he can partake if he chooses. Lots of schools sneekly push Christianity in in some way, I have made it clear to my children that I am not Christian but they can believe what they wish, I have four children, three don't believe, my youngest does and it brings him a great deal of comfort so I have no reason to take that away from him.

I understand your frustrations, and I would be shocked to hear that a school my kids were attending were saying grace without having mentioned it before signing them up, but I do agree with your do about not making him stand out by withdrawing him from the prayers.

I could be wrong, but I thought Primary schools offered a form of worship of the main religion of the county, albeit different ranges of activities, could be just a weekly small prayer.

I think it is nice, but each to their own.

I've worked in plenty of non-faith primary schools in N Wales and they do have the same requirement as England. A daily act of collective worship of a broadly Christian nature.

Most of the schools in this local authority say the same, Welsh, short lunchtime prayer (Diolch i Ti, am y byd, diolch am ein bwyd bob dydd - basically thank You for the world, for the food every day) and maybe another at the end of the day.

"For what we are about to receive may the Lord make us truly thankful, amen". Said as fast as humanly possible, then we started eating lunch straight away.
I said it every day for 5 years. It didn't make me a Christian. I did find the bible stories fascinating though. It's quite useful for learning about literature and social structures.

I just had no idea that this was a thing. It certainly wasn’t a thing in any school I attended. If I’d known then I would’ve prepared my kids better for it (i.e. told them to sit quietly).

I will answer as a person who finds prayer awful. Humans should never debase themselves before another species. If someone believes another being is special, that still does not justify worship.

Humans are equal to any other being in the universe. We are responsible for our own actions and our own choices. We are in charge of making our own lives better.

i would not stop my child from praying because i believe every individual no matter how young or how old gets to decide their own beliefs. We did default to her not participating in any kind of religious activities and she can always choose to join in. She grew up knowing my beliefs and the beliefs of others and was told she could choose. In my opinion she has chosen wisely, but she is always free to reevaluate. She knows I will even help her attend services of her chooses if she wants to explore.

So you’re dictating to your children to be atheist ? Why make big deal? It goes over your head at that age but being singled out at request of their parent & burdened with remembering not to say anything during prayers just makes it hard for your children . My non religious schools said prayers and sang hymns. I didn’t grow up brainwashed by religion.

I’m in wales, they used to get us to pray in school but not before lunch just every assembly. The Lord’s Prayer, and I’ve never been to a religious school. I think it’s pretty standard here.

“I’ve told them to just sit quietly for now” and then on a later post you say you’re concerned “that if they are taught religion as fact they become religious”. Is your child not allowed to make up their own mind as to what they join in with at school and then whether they want to explore their faith?
The chances of them “become(ing) religious” (a tad outdated term) from saying some rote school prayers is slim to none OP so you can probably chill.
We live in a Christian country. I presume you happily join in with Christmas and Easter? Are you going to opt your child out of the harvest festival and nativity?