To have not realised prayers in school was still a thing?

[UnreadyEthel]

DS1 (5) started school in September. One of the reasons I chose the school was that it had no obvious religious affiliation, while another good school in the area is a Christian school. We are secular.

This morning DS1 mentioned over breakfast that they say prayers at school before they eat lunch. I was absolutely gobsmacked. It’s not something I’ve ever come across in non-religious schools (and I have worked in plenty, mainly in cities). DH, who is from the rural area we now live in, was less surprised. ‘I had to do it all the way through school and it never harmed me’. I have sent a polite email to the headteacher asking for clarification of their policies.

DS2 (3) attends the very small nursery next to the school. I asked at pickup today whether they say prayers there and the nursery teacher said ‘yes, of course’. When I asked if DS2 could opt out please she said they’d never come across the situation before, and whether I wanted her to tell him off if he joined in out of habit! I wonder whether they haven’t come across another child who wanted to opt out before because other parents aren’t aware it’s going on? And because they obviously haven’t read the forms I filled in when he enrolled. I also asked what they would do if there was a child of a different religion, but she didn’t know.

AIBU to think this is an outdated practice? Or should I just accept it’s something that comes with raising children in a more rural area of the UK?

Secularism and Atheism are not one and the same thing.

Exactly

We live in a Christian country

Nope.

Some of my son’s best memories are when I got him excused from those dreadful Christingle ceremonies (the whole nativity represented as an orange, electrical tape, raisins, mini marshmallows, and some toothpicks was clearly invented by someone smoking the good stuff) and took him to the local Italian for lunch. No, religion does not belong in school.

We are in rural England and you literally cannot find a non religious school around here, the most directly religious are Catholic schools, but all the primary are C of E. My poor son is solidly atheist (age 9) and sits through "worship wednesday" once a month, prayers every day (although not at lunch) and many religious hymns. I suspect any singing your child is doing in assemblies will have some kind of religious undertone too.... they'll also likely be a nativity, some kind of easter thing etc. I don't agree with it, but ultimately we technically chose a C of E school (there wasn't another option), so we lump it, explain he is taking part in a community activity and we respect others beliefs.

We have told him he doesn't have to pray or join in, he just has to sit quietly out of respect for those who do (which is what I do when I go to their assemblies etc). It's a good life skill to respect others and quietly not join in discreetly, and I don't think it does any harm really and if anything has further cemented his atheist little heart!

Thank you for sharing your insight

I went to a Welsh primary school ( my 3 children currently attend a Welsh primary too). We used to say a Welsh prayer before lunch every day. I think there was a prayer in assembly too. I’ve just asked my daughter and she said it the same today. It’s not a religious school though. The prayer is Iesu tirion. I still remember all the words 😂

We live in a country that is the ruler and sovereign of the country is also the head of a religion aka c of e

A prayer is a prayer it can either mean taking Tina deity or just saying words you're thinking too much and being pedantic

We had this same experience and I dislike it as well. I don’t think that prayer has any place in most schools and it is annoying that we can’t choose a totally secular school. Even RE seems to lean very heavily on Christianity and I had hoped for a more well rounded education on religious beliefs.

The Lords Prayer has always been a normal part of the school day/assembly in every single school I and my DC have been to.

I really don't get all this new hate about children being brainwashed into religion and having it forced upon them just because it's incorporated into a school learning day. Children learn about Hitler and Henry VIII in school too, does that mean that they are being forced into becoming nazi's or to behead women?? Honestly the world has gone mad!!

You live in a Christian country FFS of course it's going to be heavily influenced

It’s the grovelling debasement that makes me feel sick, the we are not worthy-ness of it all, the robotic repetition, imagine how you’d feel if you saw your children taking part in a cult. It’s not my background, my parents are atheists, their parents were atheists, it’s just not something I’ve ever been interested in and to be honest I’ve always wondered about the critical thinking and intelligence of people who genuinely believe in religion, I pity them. I wouldn’t say that out loud but I do.

We do take part in Christmas in that we have a tree and give gifts. Nothing special for Easter. We also sometimes celebrate Pesach and Hanukkah.

Their ‘nativity’ play was all about delivering Christmas cards… nothing particularly religious about it. There was nothing that I was aware of at school to mark harvest festival.

I wouldn't worry about it too much, OP. I had this at school - daily grace before lunch and prayers/hymns in every morning assembly, with a few bible stories scattered in. It doesn't appear to have converted me!

DD's school wasn't as bad as some, as it's very diverse and they were at least proactive in teaching about other religions as well. Like you, we had made point of choosing a school with no obvious religious affiliation, so I was a bit surprised when my 4yo came home from reception informing me that Jesus was the light of the world!

I didn't worry about it though, and I never made any attempt to withdraw her. We just talked at home about how different people believe different things, and that's what makes the world interesting etc. As a young adult, she is as atheist as I am so I don't think any harm was done.

As I suspected, you pick and choose which Christian festivals/activities to join in with. So why not let your child choose whether to join in with the prayer rather than dictating to them that they cannot and stressing that they might develop their own faith? Imagine the pressure on a 5yo worrying “oh no, Mummy said I can’t join in the prayer but I forgot abd said it”.

This sums it up perfectly, thank you. In my mind there is little difference between religions and cults.

I teach at a C of E school and prayer is always explicitly optional. Most of the younger kids just chime in out of habit.

Mine's at a Catholic school so it's not unexpected that they say a prayer at lunchtime (also before and after school). In my child's case it's something like "bless us God as we eat this food, bless the food, and bless the hands that made the food" which I think is quite a nice sentiment - essentially thanking the people who produce and cook the food.

I went to a secular primary school in the 90s, and we did sing hymns in assembly but I don't remember saying grace at lunchtime. On that basis I would be quite surprised to see this in a secular primary school now.

It's not just in your mind, and it's not "little" difference

Religions are, quite literally, cults.

I’ve worked in primary schools and mostly it’s a sing sort of prayer before lunch.

“Thank you for the food we eat yum yum
Thank you for the songs so sweet hum hum
Thank you for the birds that sing-aling-aling
Thank you God for everything- amen

All the children seem to sing it regardless of faith, it’s quite a catchy tune. I’ve never really thought much about it, 2 different primary schools I’ve worked at sing the same thing before lunch.

Giving out presents at Christmas is hardly ‘joining in with a Christian activity’. We’re not turning up for midnight mass!

That pressure on a 5yo is exactly why religion has no place in schools.

We are not religious at all. Never have been. Neither have our parents.

The school we have chosen for our son (4) (starting September) is a Sikh faith school and they seem to embrace all religions and non religions and have a be kind to all approach which is something I liked. It’s a very calm approach.

We have been to many open days and felt so comfortable too.

Is it the religion part that is bothering you the most or having your child be a part of something you didn’t know about?x

I'm less bothered about my children catching religion and more bothered about teachers undermining themselves in the eyes of my children. Why should children believe the genuinely factual stuff they are taught, if they are also presented with the tenets of religion as fact?

I'm very much up for "some people believe" and looking at different sides of an argument. But my my DD was pretty disgusted to be taught that "God loves children in war zones as much as he loves you", when an alternative interpretation is that a loving God wouldn't put children in such awful circumstances, so probably doesn't exist.

🙄

I think it's very unusual, I work in primary schools and I have never seen anyone say a prayer except in CoE schools. They don't say anything at lunch, which is generally a chaotic affair with everyone starting eating at different times anyway, even within the class. As far as I know, my children who are practically grown up, have never said prayers at school. I did, but it was many decades ago.
I wouldn't personally say anything as I wouldn't be too fussed about it.