To have not realised prayers in school was still a thing?

[UnreadyEthel]

DS1 (5) started school in September. One of the reasons I chose the school was that it had no obvious religious affiliation, while another good school in the area is a Christian school. We are secular.

This morning DS1 mentioned over breakfast that they say prayers at school before they eat lunch. I was absolutely gobsmacked. It’s not something I’ve ever come across in non-religious schools (and I have worked in plenty, mainly in cities). DH, who is from the rural area we now live in, was less surprised. ‘I had to do it all the way through school and it never harmed me’. I have sent a polite email to the headteacher asking for clarification of their policies.

DS2 (3) attends the very small nursery next to the school. I asked at pickup today whether they say prayers there and the nursery teacher said ‘yes, of course’. When I asked if DS2 could opt out please she said they’d never come across the situation before, and whether I wanted her to tell him off if he joined in out of habit! I wonder whether they haven’t come across another child who wanted to opt out before because other parents aren’t aware it’s going on? And because they obviously haven’t read the forms I filled in when he enrolled. I also asked what they would do if there was a child of a different religion, but she didn’t know.

AIBU to think this is an outdated practice? Or should I just accept it’s something that comes with raising children in a more rural area of the UK?

Just love it when posters tell you how you should think 🤣

Yes, a knowledge of Christianity does help with the appreciation of Western European art and literature- and is part of the mental furniture of an educated person. What’s that got to do with praying in school?

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Removing duplicate posts

Removing duplicate posts

Perplexed as to how quoting the presidential democratic candidate breaks talk guidelines?

Anyway to reiterate you don’t have to believe in God or Jesus but it’s somewhat foolish to say Christianity has no effect on your life when the social and moral environment in which you’ve been born and raised is intrinsically Christian.

Really struggling to understand why you can’t accept that other people have a different opinion and perspective than you?

I didn’t say it did. I was responding to another poster’s assertion that Christianity had nothing to do with her life.

Of course it's joining in

Schools have a lot of choice in how much religion is involved in their 'collective worship'. We deliberately chose a primary school which was non church affiliated. They had a school poem which did not mention God and sang secular songs. No prayers ever. The only thing of a Christian nature was the nativity play, but even then it wasn't always actually a nativity as such. Eg one year they did the Jolly Christmas Postman. Obviously they taught RE but always in the "some people believe" mode.

Secondary grammar school also no religious aspect to assemblies (no hymns no prayers). They do a carol service at Christmas, that's it. Again RE is taught but all religions covered in the same way.

Our children have always joined in with all the fun, non religious parts of Christmas/Easter. Presents, santa, tree, cards, easter eggs, hot cross buns etc are all fun cultural traditions which it is very normal to participate in even if you are not religious.

The only time I've had to ask for them to opt out of religion was when they did their Brownies/Guides/Cubs/Scouts promises. They have options for other religions and none so we just asked for that. Aside from prayers and hymns at Remembrance Day and similar they've encountered very little religious stuff even in those nominally religious organisations.

I'm not Christian, but what do you fear might happen if you child continues to say prayers? Lots of people have been brought up Christian and haven't stayed in the faith

I don’t “fear” anything will happen. I just don’t think children should be expected to practice religion of any sort at school. And nobody has been able to come up with a good reason why they should. Learning about-fine. Learning to do-not fine.

I think it should be clear cut if your children attend a secular school then there shouldn’t be any religious influence apart from learning about world religions as a general understanding of RE. However I do know it sometimes happens in Scotland. I used to teach in a secular high school which had ministers attached to the school and would do religious services at Christmas and Easter. Pupils were allowed to be exempted and most of the Jewish and Muslim pupils did not attend them and spent time in the library at that time. My current school does not include any religious services and is very open to accepting and acknowledging pupils of different faiths in so that they have accommodated prayer time for Muslim pupils and set up a prayer room for them as it was particularly important to them. Personally I went to a catholic primary school so we had lots of religious elements but it didn’t go to the extent of indoctrinating us and lots of former pupils are not religious at all now.

There’s no such thing as a “secular school”. Would that there were.

This true and a good point.

It's not about fear, it's that freedom of religion and freedom of belief - including the right to have no religion - is an important human right enshrined in law. Schools are in a position of authority and forced prayer, or attempts to force prayer - like chastisement and punishment for children not joining in - contravenes that human right.

If you believe in God then perhaps it’s nice to say grace. If you don’t believe then it surely makes no difference, apart from the fact that perhaps it’s good for children to take a minute to say thank you for what they’ve received.

It does make a difference if you don’t believe in god . Always good to say thank you to whoever has prepared the meal - basic good manners but has nothing to do with god so why should a prayer or grace be said?

Many parents including myself have no problem with the prayer.
I actually like that the tradition has lasted, unlike the national anthem.
We sang the national anthem weekly throughout school.
It is crap that most children won't learn it in school.
If you don't want your children participating, there is an option to sit out.

Why can’t you maintain the tradition of a pause for reflection and thanks without mentioning God?

My DT’s went to an international school and didn’t follow the uk system so no prayers or references to any god. Many parents do have an issue with the uk system - otherwise there wouldn’t be threads like this.

Why should they, the majority are Catholic. It has been part of the culture for centuries,
The minority can opt out for a few moments.
It is once a week. Friday morning prayer.

Well yes- in a Catholic school that would be the case.

DD went to non-denominational diverse schools in London and never had prayers. There was a bit of philosophical thought and a smattering of ethics but that’s it.

I grew up in a CofE PS back in the 1980s so it was expected. No prayers in my non-denominational secondary comp though.

I do think the collective worship should go, though. A lot of British families now don’t have any religion at home at all, mine included.