To have not realised prayers in school was still a thing?

[UnreadyEthel]

DS1 (5) started school in September. One of the reasons I chose the school was that it had no obvious religious affiliation, while another good school in the area is a Christian school. We are secular.

This morning DS1 mentioned over breakfast that they say prayers at school before they eat lunch. I was absolutely gobsmacked. It’s not something I’ve ever come across in non-religious schools (and I have worked in plenty, mainly in cities). DH, who is from the rural area we now live in, was less surprised. ‘I had to do it all the way through school and it never harmed me’. I have sent a polite email to the headteacher asking for clarification of their policies.

DS2 (3) attends the very small nursery next to the school. I asked at pickup today whether they say prayers there and the nursery teacher said ‘yes, of course’. When I asked if DS2 could opt out please she said they’d never come across the situation before, and whether I wanted her to tell him off if he joined in out of habit! I wonder whether they haven’t come across another child who wanted to opt out before because other parents aren’t aware it’s going on? And because they obviously haven’t read the forms I filled in when he enrolled. I also asked what they would do if there was a child of a different religion, but she didn’t know.

AIBU to think this is an outdated practice? Or should I just accept it’s something that comes with raising children in a more rural area of the UK?

AIBU to think this is an outdated practice? Or should I just accept it’s something that comes with raising children in a more rural area of the UK?

england doesn’t have any “non religious” schools, it’s wrapped up in the fact England is a Christian county and not secular as somewhere like France or USA. Therefore our schools all have an element of religion and its law to have this within our schools. That is unlikely to change anytime soon.

as agnostic I dislike like this, and thought about withdrawing my child from the religious parts of the school day - in the end I didn’t for various reasons

Well that’s bunkem. I went to a small rural school. We had fortnightly visits from the local minister, were made to say the Lord’s Prayer, did a nativity play, religious church services etc etc and I am absolutely NOT religious because my parents aren’t religious. Parents have by FAR the biggest influence. And as you seem to purport in your first post you are a teacher, you should know that.

i get you are upset this has been done without your consent. And I agree THAT is out of order. But I wouldn’t be getting too worried. Home is the influencer here, not school

Or, as everyone says the home is the most significant factor in this matter, we could leave the praying for the family to deal with? You don’t need prayer to punctuate the school day-there are many other non religious ways to reflect, to show gratitude and to provide a moment of calm. Good to show Christian children an alternative, no?

Interesting take. we grew up going to Sunday school, church on Sunday, praying often, the Vicar coming to school, the vicar visiting ill relatives etc, my kids are being bought up in the same way, but if they choose not to, thats fine as well. I don’t think its wise to criticise the intelligence those who are different to you.

What made you decide to bring your DC’s up in that way?

Familiarity, tradition, the ability to be able to do so, in the rural area we live it is quite normal. The opportunity for Sunday school came when DS started school and he saw a-lot of his little friends attend and have fun and he didn’t want to miss out. Comfort, the comfort it bought us as children having the vicar call around the hospital bed when our mother was ill, call with us in times of bereavement etc etc, it is just a part of life in this area. I must admit there have been times I question prayers religion etc. When my best friend lost her little boy in a tragic accident for example, a time that sticks in my mind quite vividly as well was when my father was knelt at my mothers death bed, questioning where God was in tears, but the Vicar offered great words of wisdom and comfort at that time, and for us, it got us through.

If your kid isn't complaining don't get involved. He's hardly getting brainwashed.

At my kids primary there would be some bland Kumbaya type hyms at assembly. Plenty of Muslim , Sikh and Hindu kids. Nobody seemed to mind.
Ps ...I've heard they don't show people eating in Downton Abbey as that would involve saying grace. Is that an urban myth though?

You're wasting your time. Christianity is as unpopular as dogs on MN.

But would you say more or less unpopular than mother’s in law? 😉

I have absolutely no problem with Christianity. Or -any other religion. I just think it should be up to individual families. It has no place in the public sphere. For the avoidance of doubt, I believe strongly that children should be taught ABOUT Christianity and other world religions in school. They should just not be expected to practice it. That’s for hone.

😅😂touche!

It's really not the worst thing that goes on in schools without parental consent. And no, teaching religion as fact, in schools, does not make children religious. Religion is in terminal decline it seems.

When God came to us, in human form, we crucified him. He knows human suffering deeply

my kids go to a school in wales that’s non faith and they say a little prayer before lunch. They just chant something along the lines of thank you god for the world, thank you for the food, thanks for the sun and rain, thanks for everything - it’s in Welsh but that’s the gist. It’s very much a non event. I wouldn’t stress them out by telling them not to say it. We’re not christian and I’ve always told my kids to make their own minds up about the world. The prayer has had no impact at all on their opinions. Eldest is very convinced by the Big Bang!

Exactly. Why is it only the Christian children who don't need their eyes and minds opening up to different ways of showing gratitude?

Great. Now try suggesting other religions alter their practice. 👍 tell us how it goes.

This is happening constantly in schools; children of various different religions and none being told to pray in the Christian way during assemblies and at lunchtime.

Not sure what you mean? My contention that we do not need religion of any sort as part of the daily life of state funded schools. What is your contention?

I’m in a couple of minds about this. A PP said that her children’s school prays three times a day - I consider that quite a lot (and my children go to a religious school).

Part of the point of religious worship is to understand something of the UK’s history. I’ve been to funerals where lots of people didn’t know the tunes to the (fairly standard, well known) hymns. As a teenager I read Wuthering Heights but, when I came back to it as an adult, I realised that huge chunks of it must have gone over my head because Brontë assumed the reader would have a proper working knowledge of the bible.

Interesting about the reflection of a Christian nature each day.

Grace is something that one comes across, without warning, in social circumstances. It often announces the start of eating and is a simple thank you for our food.
It's good for kids to be familiar with what they might encounter when visiting a friend's house or going to a wedding etc.

It's good manners for people to respect some one else's prayer and be silent for a short time. Good also to know not to start eating before Grace - to notice that everyone is ready and has some food.
I'm with your DH. I think Grace is good manners, part of civility.

So, I would be explaining the practice and teaching your children to be polite. To listen, understand that Grace is important to some people but they don't ever need to say it, even if they feel thankful for the cook and the farmers and food..

Christianity helped shape much of the UK's landscape. Although some love to post stats about the UK no longer being represented by majority Christians, the fact remains, it is still steeped in Christianity. What would your alternative form of gratitude to the prayer be? That is one big task to undo all that history but I'm sure whatever the alternative, it would be to appease the minority.

I’d be interested to know how OP would react if there had been no active worship on school and the school teaches all religions as different people’s beliefs and then one day their child comes home (either as a child from school or as a young adult ) and decides they want to become a Christian/muslim/sikh etc?? How would you react.

Are you actually asking what an alternative form of gratitude to prayer could be?

How about making sure every pupil says thank you to the catering staff - the ones who've actually provided the food?

Removing Christian prayer from school doesn't undo history; it doesn't change the fact that many of us had to pray despite not being Christian or we'd get in trouble at school - it just acknowledges that prayer and faith are personal things that can be carried out by the individual in the way they choose. Churches still exist, if Christians want to pray in a group they can go to a service and do so with like-minded people. They don't have to involve the rest of us in it.

I'm not religious but it doesn't bother me , i actually think its a nice thing for children to be aware and be grateful for having a meal when other people aren't so fortunate.