To absolutely not want closer ties to Europe

[Viviennemary]

What is the matter with Stammer toadying up to the EU. We voted Out. Has he forgotten. I switched the TV off when I heard the word contribution and free movement. Here we go again. Shafted and ripped off at every turn and following their dumb rules. It's groundhog day. I'm furious.

The EU was formed out of the horror of the 2nd world war and was idealistic in general. It's directives provided all sorts of opportunities that Tories hated, such as the working time directive which meant we couldn't work silly long hours like the Americans, restrictions on low quality food that hadn't been contaminated with chlorine and being part of an enormous market, that gave British businesses the chance to sell to Europe, scale up and employ more people and gave us an enormous choice as consumers that we no longer have. Our lawmakers had a lot of choice over how those directives were implemented.

But then B Johnson, who has no morals, went over and started writing guff about bendy bananas and it all got perverted. And just before Brexit, the EU passed a directive that forbade the rich from hiding their untaxed income in tax havens. So there was a scramble to get out, so all the untaxed UK rich could continue to conceal their untaxed gains abroad and slither out of their obligations to the NHS. And here's the worst bit... how did they do that? By persuading those people who had the most to benefit from the NHS, that the EU was interfering in our laws.

Oh, OP, if only you read a bit more, thought a bit deeper, asked a few more questions, what murky depths you would discover about brexit...

@Viviennemary is a Remainer using her post as an agent provocateur to get the debate moving again after many years of reluctant acceptance by many.

I salute her for this, the debate is on again!

Oh please get a grip.

Brexit is a disaster. We were led there by lying self interested rich cunts or wannabe rich cunts.

Cunts like misogynistic racist Farage. We are poorer and more isolated as a result.

We had an absolutely fair say when we had a seat at the table. That's what our MEPs were for.

You know, like lovely Nige who so diligently represented us in all aspects of the fishing industry attending all necessary meetings. Definitely not just pocketing the EU schilling and doing fuck all.......

I hope Mr Starmer can take every legitimate step possible towards rejoining the EU. I'd like to see our young people have the chance of a better future given back to them. Loads of the gammons who voted leave because they didn't have the first clue about politics, economics or how the EU actually works should hopefully be dead by now.

The EU aren't some fascist overlord like Trump, they're a democratic institution. We are a sadder, poorer, more divided and greyer place outside of it.

Well luckily this isn't the issue is it? Because rejoining isn't what's being discussed today - it's a trade deal. Where was the OP's outrage about the US and the Indian trade deal? Did she notice them? Or was the it the word "Europe" (you know, that continent we live in) that was the trigger?

Because she has absolutely no fucking clue. Just like all the other idiot Brexiteers who've spent the last 9 years whining about sovrintee and control and laws and metropolitan elites and bendy fucking bananas and all the other bullshit they are obsessed with, without actually having the tiniest fucking understanding of ANY of it.

I have absolutely nothing but contempt for them. They've fucked this country and they're still too bloody stupid to realise it.

And now certain people are desperate to ditch the EU and stick in a US deal they'll get even richer off. But the rest of us will get screwed on.

I think Viviennemary has lost all credibility as she cannot come back with one 'law' that the EU inflicted on her that she disagrees with.
Comes across as an utter 'little englander'.
As far as I am concerned I am fully in favour of closer association with all our neighbours, EU or what ever.
As for fishing, a distraction. It accounts for a misicule income for the UK. The average brit eats very little fish.
Well done Sir Kier.

She’s one of the ill informed that voted for Brexit so it’s unlikely she will be capable of answering

I switched the TV off when I heard the word contribution and free movement. Here we go again. Shafted and ripped off at every turn and following their dumb rules.

What do you think is being agreed and which bits of it do you object to?

You may well be worrying unnecessarily.

UKIP's own pre-referendum literature said "We would continue to trade with EU member states. The UK is the largest purchaser of goods and services. It is inevitable that we would negotiate our own trade agreement with the EU after exit" (The Truth About Trade Beyond the EU, UKIP, 2015 - you can still find it archived on the Wayback Machine)

We have trade agreements with many countries. They are not a bad thing. In fact they were one of the big sales points of the Leave campaign.

What context were free movement and contribution used in? What were they talking about?

Could you have confused free movement with the youth mobility scheme? This is not free movement but rather something akin to the existing Youth Mobility Scheme visa that we have with countries like Australia and Canada. It is still in negotiation, but likely to be approved. I haven't heard any criticism from the right over youth mobility visas, so I had assumed it was fairly uncontentious.

Well @Viviennemary appears to be proving them right about that.

"We should absolutely stop youth visas for Aussies, Canadians and Japanese. Coming over here and taking all our jobs. Outrageous."

Some were not of age when Brexit happened. Some may not have had interest at the time.
Some are just not interested in any explanation which differs from their own.
I don’t see how insulting someone is worth it more than repeating facts and figures 🤷‍♀️
The only one anyone should be calling out is David Cameron.

Sure, Jan.

So you see the damage Brexit caused and is still causing and you still want to carry on 🤦🏻‍♀️

@WestwardHo1i don’t know, perhaps you should address those questions to the Op? 🤷‍♀️

does this mean we might ever rejoin the eu ? I would quite like freedom of movement back !
I didn’t vote in the referendum but all the people that did who I know voted because they thought it would stop immigration

I've tried but she won't answer.

This is so true. People were not interested in explanations. The country had apparently had enough of experts. People voted for Brexit without understanding the implications.

As you say, it hasn't delivered from them so now they're looking to Reform. The triumph of hope over experience, I suppose.

And when Reform fails to deliver for them, what then? I dread to think what new horrors the idiots will wreak upon us all when they realise that Nigel doesn't have any answers.

What a ludicrous comment. 🙄 Now we've left the EU we all have shitty dirty beaches full of shit, and used period pads.

Get a grip!

DH said recently, he thinks we need to have Reform win the next election.

Just so we can see just how shit Farage actually is and we can get it all out of our system.

(He hates Farage).

💤 😴

Change the record mate.

I for one welcome the start of the reversal. Brexit has been damaging and people who can't or won't review their position in the face of evidence aren't credible. Bring it all back.

inews.co.uk/news/beaches-sewage-rubbish-sanitary-products-brexit-3407217?srsltid=AfmBOoplpOg813MOIh3iEKIIkbQW3bIrROQW7ckWEEzDdcfFaACdK5qR

We are NOT going back into the EU.

HTH.

In their minds we are not bright enough to decide for ourselves, we have to be told what is best for us.

Well I guess Starmer had to be right about something, sometime.

So far "Leavers" on this thread have had to be told what the vote actually said, the difference between the EU and the Council for Europe, and a whole host of similar facts, demonstrating that either (a) they didn't know what they were voting for or (b) they aren't bright enough to decide for themselves. Either way, it isn't a good look.