To absolutely not want closer ties to Europe

[Viviennemary]

What is the matter with Stammer toadying up to the EU. We voted Out. Has he forgotten. I switched the TV off when I heard the word contribution and free movement. Here we go again. Shafted and ripped off at every turn and following their dumb rules. It's groundhog day. I'm furious.

I'll take your point about HK.

But Europe did fair much better than the UK in terms of Covid.

Genuine question to all those on here. What would convince you that those who voted Brexit and may well still be in favour of it, might actually have thought, deliberated and made an informed decision that they thought best for their country

@Viviennemary I presume you voted leave, I didn't and still wouldn't today. I think Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage mislead us dreadfully. We are worse off for being out of Europe and the EU. The referendum shouldn't be arbitrarily overturned, that's against the law and the vote. But I am very much in favour of closer ties. The EU wasn't perfect but in it we had a voice and could influence our near neighbours. Farage was renowned for being an MEP but didn't properly represent us, didn't mind having his snout in the EU trough though.

A lot of the protections for holiday pay, working hours and such like are down to Europe. If we let Farage in, he will happily scrap the NHS (not saying it's not in need of reform) and wants to bring in an insurance based system. That's not working for poor Americans, nor for those who get seriously ill and can't afford the premiums; healthcare can end up costing everything you own.

People are against mass migration but if global warming continues, it's going to be something we all have to get used to as the habitable areas of the earth diminish.

Cajones, much of Europe have mixed private, public health care,

The options are not NHS or America, there is a lot of options in between!

lol what an attitude! these "shorter poppies" tend to go on to become the professional people we need if our economy is to grow...

Where as someone from a deprived background is unlikely, note not impossible, to get the A levels and then a degree in Engineering Sciences etc

Now thats not right and we need to improve life chances but that doesn't mean we take them away from others, well, in your world it does :(

@Viviennemary

get a life it’s cost us 4% of GDP and ruined the country and was based on lies.

also the question was EU membership not customs union or EEA.

so there was no vote on that.

norway proves you can be in the CU and EEA and not EU.

Jesus Christ Cav!! do you live in the past?

We are constantly berated for bring up the disasterous economy Labour inherited, yet here you are dragging up reams of stuff, some of which go back a decade plus... i mean why???

Is it what you right wingers do? Dream about the past, head in the sand about the future!

No wonder you have just 120 MPs !

Fwiw I seem to recall we ran out of Pfizer and when we got more, paid through the nose, surprising any money left after you lot gave it away to your mates with a Yacht or Pub.....

We already do, so many of our laws were set out many years ago under our connection to the EU, it will take years to detach ourselves from them, but most of them we don't even know about, but work in our favor. Take for example minimum wage, I'm sure the majority of the UK would be disgusted if we abolished that, and most of our our health and safety laws. I was appalled that we voted to leave the EU, however I didn't agree with everything they stood for.

Absolutely and nobody is arguing with that, but only don't let's call them taller poppies when they are not. I have yet to encounter a tall poppy who would acknowledge - it is not me, it is my parents who did it all - good school, extra tuition, good opportunities. All I had to do was to sit on my arse and learn stuff.

Alexandra2001.

I brought up vaccines in response to the question name anything that Brexit gave the UK.

Now I think we should be allowed to use past events to give examples of how Brexit allowed the UK to act free of the EU.

Can I ask how you know cav is a right winger, or do you assume they are because they disagree with you?

Also when did right-winger become a slur. I'm sure a decade ago to be right wing, simply meant you held a different set of views on how a country should be run than those who were left wing.

I don't think you've read your own link or possibly you've not understood it.

Yes, I have - I think my link was a perfectly adequate response to your previous post.

Of course the UK "lost" more QMV votes than other countries in the period after 2008 because the period after 2008 was essentially about clearing up the mess of the financial crisis.

From my link;
As the graphic below shows, the UK voted against the majority more frequently on budgetary policies, foreign and security policy, and international development.

We were the only apologists for the old financial services practices that were being reformed.

The Guardian;

George Osborne suffered a bruising defeat in Europe as the 26 other EU finance ministers imposed curbs on bankers' bonuses in an unprecedented move targeted at the UK financial services sector.

I saw Gordon Brown pick up the phone to the Spanish Presidency and get a vote that the UK was about to lose postponed because the UK was about to lose it.

Ah, yes, Gordon Brown - the European Commission helped him lose the 2010 election;

March 16 2010
Gordon Brown was dealt an embarrassing blow last night when Brussels gave warning that Britain must do more to curb its spiralling debt.

The European Commission wants Labour to outline further spending cuts and spell out where the axe will fall.

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/curb-your-spending-brussels-tells-gordon-brown-3rkmql67hxs

That was a reply to mutinyonthetwix

And Covid and immigrants and single mothers and the Labour Party but absolutely nothing to do with Brexit 🤣🤣🤣

Alexandra2001
Fwiw I seem to recall we ran out of Pfizer

No more than any other country - I remember the EU trying to block/steal our vaccines and all the fuss that caused!

@theworldsacrazycrazymess true, I think we need to end up with something of a better mixed economy on the Healthcare front. But nuance doesn't seem to be a feature of politics at the moment. (And personally, I wouldn't trust Farage and Reform as far as I could throw any of them.)

Nor of Mumsnet 🤣.

But you are quite on all counts!

Slightly off topic but the post that I made in this thread at 19:12 today was deleted by moderators - how do I find out why? How can be bemoaning racism & generally idiotic behaviour be deleted?

So it's trade deals you object to. How's that going to work then.

What general idiotic behaviour were you bemoaning?

Voting for Brexit?

Haven’t seen anyone being rude, just people asking for further clarification to engage in an actual discussion but OP doesn’t appear to actually have any knowledge on the topic.

So many people have referred to OP and others who are pro Brexit as idiotic, I think that's rude?

Lyraloo
Maybe if we’d still been in Europe they’d have insisted we stopped free travel much sooner and saved countless life’s!

I don't think so - we were still in the EU's single market throughout 2020 and it was the EU who forced Macron to open up the border again Christmas 2020 after he blocked it to lorry drivers coming from the UK. Also the Spanish government were badgering the UK and other European governments to let their citizens visit Spain in the summer of 2020 - which set off the second wave.

As you know from our earlier dialogue, yeah.

Ah I joined this thread, after 19:12, so I didn't know.

They aren't rejoining, merely trying to get some better terms of trade. And that is what a lot of businesses want.

Oh bless you are still trying.

OK let's start with your first point. Budgetary, foreign and security matters weren't dealt with through QMV. So NGL my instinct is to assume you've just gone and read something else you don't understand but I'm looking forward to you proving me wrong with some original thoughts rather than just quoting something else you don't understand.

Your second quote literally demonstrates the exact point I was making so maybe you again don't understand.

Your third quote, I am not going to lie I have no idea what it is supposed to demonstrate on the subject of whether the UK had the ability to influence UK legislation but I am certainly looking forward to your explanation.