To absolutely not want closer ties to Europe

[Viviennemary]

What is the matter with Stammer toadying up to the EU. We voted Out. Has he forgotten. I switched the TV off when I heard the word contribution and free movement. Here we go again. Shafted and ripped off at every turn and following their dumb rules. It's groundhog day. I'm furious.

Look at the National Audit Office report - it's written carefully but it makes it clear business wasnt listened to and was ignored when Truss negotiated trade deals so we basically allowed many foreign market entrants improved access and terms for key industries without reciprocal terms for industries which are strategic growth sectors. So listening to business and not rolling over to screw out key industries would be one thing I would do differently

The new EU deal also gives away the right to provide "state aid" eg basically to provide financial incentives to manufacturers to stay in the UK/help make them more productive/competitive. This is a major giveaway which is a big issue. The support provided to JLR for EV/Battery would not have been possible under these rules. This would be another thing I would seek to do differently.

Yes indeed OP, your sparkling wit, rapier- like debating skills and intelligent, not at all childish comebacks have floored us all.

Another point

On the deal with the USA, they have a trade deficit with us. Somehow we came out of a negotiation where we had a strong position and we have

• Agreed worse terms for car exports
• Have to apply US rules on trade with China in a range of keys areas as when the US changes it's mind.

Why on earth have we agreed to a deal which will lead to a reduction in our car exports to the USA, when we have an overall trade deficit with them? We have essentially a agreed a trade deal with the USA which will make the trade deficit with the USA worse than it currently is.

I do want closed ties with the EU. The 4% loss of gdp is £100 bn. We have been utterly stupid and I cannot believe people still think the EU made our laws! We had joint agreements and they applied to all member countries. We have Parliament for our laws and courts to uphold them. Maybe posters aren’t aware of this?

...because the alternative was huge tariffs on all car exports to the USA, you seem to think we have the whip hand in these negotiations with the USA or even the EU... we are a small country, with not too much too offer....

But i do agree, the Aus /NZ was an awful one, done quickly to prove the so called brexit benefits to the masses who wont look at the detail....

Had about enough of this "oi dont call us thick we want our country back" with a generous seasoning of "sovereignty and glorious freedom" bollocks 9 years ago. It was a load of rubbish then and it still is now, and no amount of angry nonsense is going to change that. Time we grew the fuck up and started dealing with other countries and groupings like the EU like adults, rather than 2yos.

I've no problem calling brexitiers with these sorts of arguments "Thick" they are, so why shouldn't they be called out?

However, come forward with reasoned arguments and thats entirely different.

holy crumpet, Vivienne (I presume Bucket). You sound lonely and a bit sad.

From the point of view of the country, I will never forgive the Brexiters for their stupidity/venality. But for my personal situation and a selfish point of view, although it caused us shorter term hassle, it did us a favour. I could not risk my disabled DS not having EU citizenship so we moved to an EU country and are now on the verge of getting citizenship there. And we have an excellent life here.

I didn’t vote for Brexit, want closer ties with our neighbors and admit I am not hugely informed, but I don’t see how our fishing trade can grow if we are restricted on quota. Europe eats more fish so of course they want our waters.. it’s the main thing they want as far as I can see and we gave it away to easily imo. I also get that actually exporting our fish to Europe is a problem which IF the negotiations come off will help.

all I can see is we have given up a big negotiation tool for promises to talk… and we know the eu like to talk but do nothing.. they’ve got what they came to the table for already.

.. oh and I agree we need to have a deal on defence but again but we appear to have agreed without putting a spend cap on it… think this is not going to end well.

open discussion is great, and it is a negotiation just think we’ve given a bit too much too soon

Good on you but do you need an Aibu for this? You could have at least name changed. noone will take you seriously anyways after all the baloney you keep posting here on all sorts of threads 🤷

The fishing deal is a continuation of the old one, negotiated by the Tories.

It gives UK fisherman access to EU waters too, remember the altercations of the coast of France when UK boats tried fishing in French waters?

The Trade deal, gives better access to EU markets inc fish and shell fish, that'll help uk boats.

The reason we have have issues with fishing is we sold our quotas and generally speaking, don't eat what we catch in UK waters, cod, perhaps haddock and little else.

Look at FTSE and Business response....

@Lollypop701 Since Brexit our fish sakes to Eu have declined by 29%. The export process is very slow and the fish isn’t processed quickly enough. Many exporters have given up. So we are not catching as much - good of fish stocks recover. We need to ensure fish are looked after but Brexit already had caused huge export issues for fish. This is what we were doing so the whole business contracted anyway.

Well said!

the reason is simply because we need Europe more than they need us - a very simple summary but a key factor as to why brexit was never ever going to work.

But we were told that the EU population of 449.2million needed us 65 million more....

The laws of maths bend when they hit the English channel.

But you know the fishing extension isn’t legally binding until the whole deal has been agreed. None of what was set out yesterday is legally binding yet, including the fishing extension.

If for some reason the legal text can’t be agreed to give us free access to the EU markets for food, drink and plants, then the deal as a whole can’t be done. Nothing is given away yet - this is a political declaration of what both sides have said they will agree to when drafting the legal text.

Nonsense.

I don't "think we have the whip hand" (very charged choice of words btw) but I do think where there is a substantial ongoing historical trade deficit with another market that we have the ability to agree deals which either maintain that trade deficit or reduce it.

Agreeing a deal with someone with someone we have a trade deficit with to use as leverage and coming out worse off is poor negotiation - we have a track record of this within the EU and externally.

I'll echo someone up thread who said, "If it (the EU) had been a roaring success UK wouldn't have voted to leave.
I think that says it all.

What's the nonsense part - wanting to learn a language or wanting to learn it (presumably) where they speak it?

Edit: I found the quote, part of a long post giving lots of reasons:
My eldest is 16, really bright, and had dreams of studying languages and maybe doing a year abroad. We looked into Erasmus a while ago, but that’s gone now.

The UK didn’t vote to leave, 37% of the electorate did. If leaving was such a brilliant idea why has no other country done it?

I am Dutch. I am native speaker standard fluent in English. Not because of what I was taught at school, but because I spent a year in an English school when I was 10. Want to learn a language? Immersion is best.

Not quite getting the concept of different political party stances there…

The UK definitely didn't vote to leave the EU. England did. Scotland, Wales and NI all voted to stay in.