To absolutely not want closer ties to Europe

[Viviennemary]

What is the matter with Stammer toadying up to the EU. We voted Out. Has he forgotten. I switched the TV off when I heard the word contribution and free movement. Here we go again. Shafted and ripped off at every turn and following their dumb rules. It's groundhog day. I'm furious.

Jane958
Unfortunately, and I do not know who was pulling his strings, David Cameron made a very poor decision of judgement to hold a referendum

Caroline Lucas thought it was a good idea in 2011;

I support a referendum on our membership of the EU because I am pro-democracy, not because I'm anti-EU - and because I want to see a radical reform of the way Europe operates.

https://www.carolinelucas.com/latest/yes-to-an-eu-referendum

It's weird that opponents of the EU then also have a problem with a member of the EU deciding its own immigration policy, as Merkel did for Germany.

And you comment about Martin Selmayer sounds great until you realise that of course he wasn't elected - because he was appointed the Secretary General. Which is a civil service job within the European Commission.

Can you think of any other civil servants who are 'elected'? If not, why do you think this one should be?

because you don’t have an answer and you don’t have a clue what you are talking about. We never lived “under EU law. Maybe go read up on the facts???

@Viviennemary but this was the lie that was told, yes there were EU laws that predominately had protections that were to our benefit, but we still had a say and we still had English law and scottish law. They weren't all EU laws that we were governed by. And you do realise that the freedom of movement went both ways, we may have had people coming here to work, but we also have loads of brits going to live and work in Europe. Still waiting to see what has improved, since credit. People were lied to.

@Clavinova I think you need to balance that up with the trending post the day after the referendum ‘what is the single market’ ? You know what it is, but plenty voting Brexit didn’t , including my aforementioned relative who basically said I’ve got no idea of the detail or economics I just don’t like Eastern Europeans or Muslims ( although what that had to do with the EU on a large scale I have no idea) my close relative is high up in the security forces and voted for it and now says it was a load of corrupt baloney with zero advantages for the average person anda disaster for the economy and investment and it cost a fortune too .

You horrible ignorant idiots have impoverished this country beyond belief. It's costing us £149 billion a year and led to the small boats issue and for absolutely no gain.

You got nothing that the lying scamming brexiters promised and only negative consequences for the country.

Time to sit down and shut up and let the grown ups try to start fixing your horrific mess.

Why are the articles biased @BatchCookBabe ?

For someone so animated and often hyperbolic, it is very telling that when presented with facts you so quickly eschew them, or dismiss using high octane language but never properly addressing anything.

Anyway, how about an article from our own state broadcaster instead. Logically, it should pass your bias detector 🙄

www.bbc.com/news/articles/c201rz925nyo

So? What terrible consequences has this brought to your life?

I think it’s pretty clear that ultimately there are powerful people out there who will take decisions that will affect our lives (or not, as the case may be) regardless of whether or not we chose them. Look at Elon Musk!

And the end of the day we sink or swim as a country, long term, depending on making savvy relationships with countries that broadly speaking share our interests. And that’s Europe. Maybe we won’t be 100% totally independent in every decision made, but so what, the alternative is to be squashed underfoot as bigger actors take over the stage. Rule Brittania isn’t an option any more.

Crying about wanting complete independence and not operating within any umbrella rules at all is like a stroppy teenager who wants to have all the benefits of living in her parent’s house without making any contributions or following any rules. That’s a metaphor we should all understand on here I think!
Brexit was us leaving in a huff, determined to ‘make it on our own’. But the world is a dangerous place, we can’t defend ourselves alone, we’ve very little money and we’re not nearly as capable of doing it alone as we thought we were… it’s taken us till now to realise we’re actually better off as part of a household, even with the conditions and slight (minimal) loss of autonomy that brings. The same as being the member of any larger group or society.

Indeed - and so much for Peter Kyle going on about up-skilling social care and raising aspirations in the sector for British workers if the government intend to import hundreds of thousands of people from the EU to fill those vacancies.
(Question Time last week).

Which EU laws have upset you? Didn't MEPs vote on them ie your democratically elected representatives.

It's been great having Polish plumbers. And glad that so many Brits have gone to Spain & France. Hope the rules for travel for young people will be changed so that they can experience other cultures & opportunities.

Relax, the EU isn’t looking to strong arm the UK back in. You’re safe OP, UK won’t be taken back for at least a generation.

You would vote Reform anyway? based on your posts on other threads

@Snickersnack1 yep - it has left us very vulnerable and why we have to be careful with relations with ( in my opinion) unhinged people like Musk and Trump instead of having the weight of the EU standing together- and these people know this and will play on that weakness. There is very little the US want or really need from us too .

This makes no sense.

👏👏👏👏👏 absolutely true.

Hundreds of Thousands?

Where have you got this figure from? And where have you got the idea that they will be coming here to work in the care sector? Have the multiple other youth mobility schemes that the UK has with other countries also attracted hundreds of thousands of care workers?

Trying to engage in good faith, I did go back and didn't read the comments, but scrolled for emojis. There were a few, but @BatchCookBabe was the first to roll out a post full of them, while arguing demonstrable facts as #fakenews, which does not, to me, demonstrate good faith discussions.

I do think @Viviennemary has come in for a bit of a bashing, but she (or they, or whoever) often engages in goady posts, and I do think lots of posters attempted to get her to articulate some specifics on her position, but she declined to, as she generally does.

There was a poster early on chiding Remainers for not listening to Leavers, and this is an opportunity - tell me something fact based and worth hearing, and I'm all there for listening. Base your position on unarticulated 'dumb rules' and, not so much.

Exactly this.

Sorry, but what's stopping the Labour government from sorting this out themselves?

Although I see that Thames Water point to 'one of the wettest years on record' as part of them problem. That would be good if Keir Starmer can negotiated less rain from the EU.

@Viviennemary you are very wrong - not everyone voting remain or thinking it was an incredibly poor decision if looking at the economics and totally disagreeing with you is ‘a leftie’ - plenty of lefties were indeed ‘lexiters’ - Johnson himself only turned that way when he saw an opportunity for personal power himself - months before he was busy saying it was a stupid idea.

What makes you believe we never lived under EU law?

Agree 💯

What does this even mean?

I thought the EU were asking for 70,000 visas per year with a stay of up to 4 years, although obviously to be negotiated. I didn't mean to suggest they would all work in social care but tens of thousands might.