Page 16 | To absolutely not want closer ties to Europe

Viviennemary · 2025-05-19T13:07:31+00:00

What is the matter with Stammer toadying up to the EU. We voted Out. Has he forgotten. I switched the TV off when I heard the word contribution and free movement. Here we go again. Shafted and ripped off at every turn and following their dumb rules. It's groundhog day. I'm furious.

Turnups · 19/05/2025 17:27

Clavinova · 19/05/2025 17:25

Any attempt by either the UK or EU to portray the new [fishing] deal as a continuation of existing arrangements would be a lie, because in fact the Trade & Co-operation Agreement paved the way for annual access negotiations from 2026.
https://thefishingdaily.com/uk-fishing-industry-news-news/disaster-for-uk-fishermen-as-labour-government-sells-out-fishing/

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"Access for negotiations" doesn’t sound very promising to me!

Clavinova · 19/05/2025 17:29

JustSawJohnny
All official polls show, and have shown for a couple of years, that a re-vote would put us back in by a comfortable margin.

6–8 May 2025 BMG Research for The i -
Rejoin 41%
Stay Out 40%
Neither 18%
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potential_re-accession_of_the_United_Kingdom_to_the_European_Unio

4444223e · 19/05/2025 17:29

mummymeister · 19/05/2025 17:19

the govt knew the deal was up next year. yes, it is a deal that they didnt negotiate but they are now the ones in office so the renegotiation of the deal falls to them doesnt it. the expectation of the industry was that the govt would negotiate a deal that was better for them than the one they were currently in because that is what they were told. ie. take this deal, suck it up work with it and give us time to get you something post brexit that is better.

The eu know the deal is up next year. they dont want to give up the fishing rights to our waters do they because thats not in their best interests. so, they were always going to try and either maintain the status quo or screw even more out of us.

Keirs job as PM is to act in the best interests of the UK as I understand it. Did he consult fishermen before agreeing to this? who in the industry has he spoken to and when? He knows this isnt a good deal for fishermen. he knows that but he doesnt care because he wants to overturn the brexit vote by stealth. if he is so sure that the country agrees with him and that we all now want closer EU ties, put it to a vote.

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But presumably, if a better deal had been available, the previous government would have negotiated that?

the expectation of the industry was that the govt would negotiate a deal that was better for them than the one they were currently in because that is what they were told. ie. take this deal, suck it up work with it and give us time to get you something post brexit that is better.

But they were told that by a government that didn't (presumably couldn't) negotiate a better deal themselves, and couldn't stay in office. I'm not discounting the distress of communities, but I'm not sure it's fair to blame a PM for not being able to materialise the potentially unachievable promised by a former government that was itself unable to deliver.

And, to to be fair, Labour did openly campaign on closer ties, and won.

Clavinova · 19/05/2025 17:30

Turnups · 19/05/2025 17:27

"Access for negotiations" doesn’t sound very promising to me!

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annual access negotiations - it's what we do with Norway every year.

Original poster

Viviennemary · 19/05/2025 17:30

CorbyTrouserPress · 19/05/2025 17:26

Your lack of comprehension is truly something to behold.

Edited

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The old leftie argument. You're too thick to agree with us. Sorry I voted Labour last time. I won't again.

OP posts:

LittleBitofBread · 19/05/2025 17:30

Polling shows that most people in the UK now think Brexit was a mistake.

PlanetJanette · 19/05/2025 17:30

Viviennemary · 19/05/2025 14:13

I just object to being governed by EU laws and the fact they could overturn decisions made in our courts. I don't want that.

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Who's they?

The EU? The EU has no power to overturn decisions made in UK courts.

Have you whipped yourself up into a lather about a deal you don't even understand?

Lilactimes · 19/05/2025 17:30

mummymeister · 19/05/2025 17:24

I am not a brexiteer. I do however think that people voted to come out of europe and that that should be respected. Not a difficult position to understand in a democracy I would have thought. And as for facts, I have explained, but can do so again, that the original deal was done on the basis that there would be jam tomorrow. that this was a holding deal and that a better one was coming. Again, not a difficult concept to understand, a bit like taking a pay cut when you get promoted to a new job on the basis that your career prospects in this new job are better - jam tomorrow.

Have you done a google search on the boats currently fishing our territorial waters?

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hopefully there will be some jam for young people in this deal - young people who didn’t want Brexit anyway

LarkspurLane · 19/05/2025 17:30

Viviennemary · 19/05/2025 17:22

Yes Reform will be cheering at today's news. I will vote Reform if only to keep us out of Europe's clutches. They bullied us long enough.

So hang on, you're upset but Reform are cheering?
Why are you not cheering as well?

Someone2025 · 19/05/2025 17:30

Viviennemary · 19/05/2025 17:22

Yes Reform will be cheering at today's news. I will vote Reform if only to keep us out of Europe's clutches. They bullied us long enough.

You really haven’t a clue what you’re talking about….

Tiredalwaystired · 19/05/2025 17:31

mummymeister · 19/05/2025 17:24

I am not a brexiteer. I do however think that people voted to come out of europe and that that should be respected. Not a difficult position to understand in a democracy I would have thought. And as for facts, I have explained, but can do so again, that the original deal was done on the basis that there would be jam tomorrow. that this was a holding deal and that a better one was coming. Again, not a difficult concept to understand, a bit like taking a pay cut when you get promoted to a new job on the basis that your career prospects in this new job are better - jam tomorrow.

Have you done a google search on the boats currently fishing our territorial waters?

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But we ARE staying out of Europe. This is a negotiation of a deal to improve our relations with Europe, not a request to gain membership.

This is respecting the will of those that voted out whilst trying to improve things for the rest that are entirely unhappy about how things played out so far.

PlanetJanette · 19/05/2025 17:31

Viviennemary · 19/05/2025 17:30

The old leftie argument. You're too thick to agree with us. Sorry I voted Labour last time. I won't again.

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So Labour said they would tear down trade barriers with the EU and negotiate an SPS agreement, and pursue greater cooperation on defence and security.

What exactly did you think they were going to do when you voted for that manifesto?

dynamiccactus · 19/05/2025 17:31

Lilactimes · 19/05/2025 17:30

hopefully there will be some jam for young people in this deal - young people who didn’t want Brexit anyway

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Sadly not - only an agreement to agree a youth mobility scheme. Tossers. Just get on with it. The kids want it now, not in about 2050.

Nominative · 19/05/2025 17:32

mummymeister · 19/05/2025 17:24

I am not a brexiteer. I do however think that people voted to come out of europe and that that should be respected. Not a difficult position to understand in a democracy I would have thought. And as for facts, I have explained, but can do so again, that the original deal was done on the basis that there would be jam tomorrow. that this was a holding deal and that a better one was coming. Again, not a difficult concept to understand, a bit like taking a pay cut when you get promoted to a new job on the basis that your career prospects in this new job are better - jam tomorrow.

Have you done a google search on the boats currently fishing our territorial waters?

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But then, people voted to stay in the EU in 1975, and no-one suggested that that was binding for all time. Why should we be bound forever by what a somewhat different electorate decided nine years ago? Nine years is an awfully long time to wait before realising that "jam tomorrow" was always an empty promise.

Tiredalwaystired · 19/05/2025 17:33

Viviennemary · 19/05/2025 17:30

The old leftie argument. You're too thick to agree with us. Sorry I voted Labour last time. I won't again.

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In one breath you just said people who vote left are thick and that you voted left. Uhhh…

RedToothBrush · 19/05/2025 17:33

mummymeister · 19/05/2025 17:08

@WestwardHo1 Did I at any point in my post say I was the only expert on coastal fishing on MN? No I didnt.

@Crikeyalmighty and geographically in the UK where are these fishing industry people? So small industrys dont matter and arent worth preserving then? and you do obviously realise, since you understand the industry and the communities that fishing communities also play a key role in tourism for different areas of the UK? or is that another industry you dont care about.

@RedToothBrush a deal that was supposed to expire next year and which the industry reluctantly agreed to initially because it was told to see the greater good and that it was a case of jam tomorrow. and now that tomorrow is here its still no fucking jam.

Everyone on here defending the deal, saying how awful brexit is and the other blah blah blah that comes from those who didnt agree with it in the first place and wont respect the democrat out vote decision you do ACTUALLY realise that Sir Keir is driving more and more people towards voting reform?

Literally the Reform party must be cheering from the rafters at this story, they really really must. I hope I live to see the next election and read all the hand wringing on MN - how could this have happened, we never imagined this would be the outcome etc etc - when Reform either get in or hold the balance of power.

So many posts banging on about seeing the bigger picture, well this right here is the bigger picture. What do you think ties with europe will look like under Nige and his cronies. Not something I even want to contemplate.

Why do you think Starmer would be magically able to do more that Johnson?

Johnson was also making a promise for a deal he wasn't necessarily ever going to be part of making five years later, so I'm not sure why Starmer is being held to Johnson's promise.

Whenever you get a change of government this is always the risk, that subsequent governments would have different priorities and be understanding different pressures.

Your logic and expectations are unrealistic.

Starmer was highly unlikely to be able to roll back on Johnsons deal and that was always the case the day Johnson made it and even if he had remained PM to renew the deal.

This is, once again, a case of a Brexiteer promising the earth and never having a chance to deliver and then others being expected to clear up the mess.

IpsyUpsyDaisyDoos · 19/05/2025 17:33

mummymeister · 19/05/2025 17:24

I am not a brexiteer. I do however think that people voted to come out of europe and that that should be respected. Not a difficult position to understand in a democracy I would have thought. And as for facts, I have explained, but can do so again, that the original deal was done on the basis that there would be jam tomorrow. that this was a holding deal and that a better one was coming. Again, not a difficult concept to understand, a bit like taking a pay cut when you get promoted to a new job on the basis that your career prospects in this new job are better - jam tomorrow.

Have you done a google search on the boats currently fishing our territorial waters?

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We voted to come out of the EU not Europe.

We're not back in the EU, we've simply done trade deals with Europe. Which is a continent and we will always be a part of.

Tiredalwaystired · 19/05/2025 17:34

dynamiccactus · 19/05/2025 17:31

Sadly not - only an agreement to agree a youth mobility scheme. Tossers. Just get on with it. The kids want it now, not in about 2050.

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I think I’d give them more than 2 1/2 hours to get things moving before I berate them though.

It’s more than has happened in the last nine years for sure though.

HangryLikeTheHulk · 19/05/2025 17:35

You know when they said “jam tomorrow” what they meant was “the imaginary benefits I’ve lied to you about happening after I’ve long scarpered with a seat in the House of Lords and a pension & advisor / speaker income for life”.

They lied to you. Farage & Reform are still at it.

NDerbys32 · 19/05/2025 17:35

Happy with it here. Businesses are struggling with import/ export and anything that helps with that is OK by me. A good friend had to shut a business down due directly to Brexit problems.
The UK and those who voted Brexit were lied to, time and again and how can anyone justify the harm to the life chances of the next generation(s) by blaming others for what was nothing more than an act of political and economic self harm. It's also had a huge effect on UK -European partnerships in the scientific and academic worlds.
If you trusted Johnson, Farage and their acolytes then I pity you.
We haven't been the 'sceptered isle' for years now and need effective partnerships with close neighbours.

Crikeyalmighty · 19/05/2025 17:37

@

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 19/05/2025 17:37

Viviennemary · 19/05/2025 17:30

The old leftie argument. You're too thick to agree with us. Sorry I voted Labour last time. I won't again.

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Did you vote for them without reading their manifesto then?

I can't imagine why people would not do at least some basic research into what they're actually voting for. The fact that people either don't bother, or perhaps that they simply choose to disregard anything that they don't want to hear, rather explains how we ended up with Brexit in the first place.

zenas · 19/05/2025 17:38

Brexit has polarised the UK. The resulting tit for tat from both sides is very unedifying.

Jacob Rees Mogg said the benefits would be seen in full in 50 years. So only 40 or so to go now....

I'm amused that some think that if there was a referendum to rejoin and it passed, that we would be back in the EU within days. LOL. We would be bottom of the queue of other nation applicants already years ahead of us.

The exceptionalism and hubris is a sight to behold really.

SeriaMau · 19/05/2025 17:38

Viviennemary · 19/05/2025 14:13

I just object to being governed by EU laws and the fact they could overturn decisions made in our courts. I don't want that.

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Which law in particular do you object to?

IpsyUpsyDaisyDoos · 19/05/2025 17:39

Viviennemary · 19/05/2025 17:30

The old leftie argument. You're too thick to agree with us. Sorry I voted Labour last time. I won't again.

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So you voted for Labour who said they would make closer ties with Europe and now you're furious that they...did what they said...?

Why did you vote for them if you want nothing to do with Europe?