To absolutely not want closer ties to Europe

[Viviennemary]

What is the matter with Stammer toadying up to the EU. We voted Out. Has he forgotten. I switched the TV off when I heard the word contribution and free movement. Here we go again. Shafted and ripped off at every turn and following their dumb rules. It's groundhog day. I'm furious.

Why on earth would you deny the state of our waters??

Your little anecdote doesn't equal the data I'm afraid. Nothing fake about this news, you absolute prune!

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/thames-boat-race-ecoli-oxford-cambridge-hammersmith-bridge-b1147904.html

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/sewage-spills-water-pollution-e-coli-sas-b2735149.html

https://www.sas.org.uk/resource/water-quality-report-2025/

Yes it’s far better to be a small jurisdiction between two huge jurisdictions- US and EU and have literally no influence on those jurisdictions which do affect us in all sorts of ways. Previously we could influence the makings of laws in the EU jurisdiction but now we can’t.

Do you go on holiday to Europe, or do you refuse to go there? If you do, do you like queueing at passport control, or would you like that to be speeded up so you can clear the airport a bit quicker?

Do you like paying more for goods since Brexit? Or would you like things to be a bit cheaper? Because that's what Starmer is trying to achieve. But you carry on sticking your chin out and cutting off your nose to spite your face, over a vote that happened NINE years ago, and we know now was subject to foreign interference, while the grown ups carry on with the business of making life a bit better for more people.

I rather suspect you'll find that democracy means no more votes after the election that gave her the result she wanted.

Oooh, is this a quiz?

Might it be the one that meant that all UK workers got at least 4 weeks leave? That was hard to bear.

Or the one about banning highly flammable materials in our furniture? That's led to a massive drop in productivity for our firefighters.

I absolutely do.

The OP is entitled to her opinion. It is alas the sneering of Remainers that partly galvanized the Leave vote. I say this as a passionate Remainer who had a front row seat as a semi- neutral observer.

A previous poster mentioned the ECHR which we are still governed by and which the Leave vote had zero impact on. This is where the OP is wrong. That and ignoring the economic vandalism that Brexit has inflicted on us and our children.

The Leave campaign was effective because the one thing people fear most is losing control. I witnessed Leave supporting politicians telling Asian heritage voters to vote Leave as they would make it easier for their family to come to the UK. I did chuckle at the idea of the anti-immigration voters backing Leave because they hate East Europeans while inadvertently supporting more migration from non-European countries.

I see Brexit as a total loss of control: loss of our economy, loss of our borders, loss of educational and employment and travel
and retirement opportunities for us and our children. I do hope Starmer makes the first positive step in his rocky and so far ineffective premiership to take back control.

Quite.

But facts that illustrate how few fucks he gives about anything he harps on about, doesn't seem to register with those it should.

No scrutiny, nothing, yet he is the answer to all of the UK's woes.

I thought today was a good day. Baby steps in the right direction without an overturning. Just how politicians should manage things for us for balance.

Im delighted about the idea of youth movement. I thought this opportunity was buried for my children and now they have a choice - quite a strong possibility looking at DDs preferred career path!

Well , enough people voted him in ,
They must of had some idea what he believed in ,and what he would do
No one in their right mind votes for a political party ,without looking at what they stand for and believe in
So I guess everything he is doing is what the majority want
Otherwise a different political party would be in charge
He's obviously a clever man looking at his past jobs and the fact he got a huge amount of people to vote for him.
Nothing is ever perfect with politicians

Agree with you 100%.

You do know that we have elections every five years where it's possible to change the government? No sane politician would put the country through that divisive shitshow again, but that doesn't mean that we can't forge closer links that will be of benefit to the country.

U ok hun?

Honestly OP just admit that you don’t know because you are just making yourself look a bit dim here.

The country has been a shit show since Brexit, let’s hope this government can try and fix some of it.

You sound like a toddler stamping their foot.

"then you’re straight up thick as mince" - it would be useful to keep discussions respectful.

@SpiritAdder The ECHR is the European Convention on Human Rights which we remained signed up to post Brexit. Breaches of the ECHR are enforced in the European Court of Human Rights (ECtHR).

The OP is entitled to her opinion. It is alas the sneering of Remainers that partly galvanized the Leave vote. I say this as a passionate Remainer who had a front row seat as a semi- neutral observer.

I do agree with this.

But the absolute frustration of it. However many of those very same people seem to adhere to that phrase "double down not back down" (thanks to a PP for that one). Very many people seem to absolutely refuse to read, to listen, to think, to ponder, to do anything except look at social media feeds for the required three seconds. I was trying to have a conversation with someone on FB who claimed that my town was "full of asylum seekers". It absolutely isn't by any metric. However she just shouted in capitals that she was ALLOWED AN OPINION and gave the raised middle finger emoticon. Er, that's not a fucking opinion! That's just wrong!

That's why people might get frustrated and therefore sometimes rude. Sometimes it seems, what other conclusion can there be? A total refusal to engage in any discussion and look at any empirical evidence is surely the very definition of stubborn ignorance and lack of critical thinking skills?

The OP is entitled to her opinion. It is alas the sneering of Remainers that partly galvanized the Leave vote. I say this as a passionate Remainer who had a front row seat as a semi- neutral observer.

But - and this is a genuine question - how do you propose Remainers should have gone about things differently (Corbyn and Cameron's weak efforts notwithstanding)? Everything I saw that was fact based was dismissed as Project Fear. Real economists were shoved aside in favour of talking heads from the Taxpayers Alliance, or whatever they're called. Isabel Oakeshott was given equal time, equal weight, to Harvard economists and Oxbridge historians.

I understand your point, but when one side is absolutely committed to disinformation and manipulation, it's hard to maintain a respectful stance to those who buy into it and parrot it. How do you respond respectfully and constructively to people like the poster upthread who dismisses the issue of loosing post-brexit regulation and sewage discharge as #Fakenews because she hasn't witnessed it herself? Particularly when those people ended up wielding such a powerful tool for our and our children's futures.

"Old frog face" - you're so eloquent, I'm sure you'd be a great politician!

Most of us think you’re unreasonable.

Coastal fishing communities like the one I live in, have been absolutely sold down the river by Sir Keirs deal. has he ever even visited a coastal fishing community? does he understand how difficult fishing is now with quotas and catch sizes and the over arching need to reduce how much is taken out of our waters?

No of course he fucking doesnt and he doesnt care either. How many fish markets have closed in the past 15/20 years? go on a boat tracker app see how many non UK registered fishing vessels are in our waters, the waters that our own fishing fleet need to be able to fish in and make a living.

Yet another townie who fails to understand how precarious this industry is. Or is he just content to make us dependent on other countries for our fish just as they are for our water quality, our energy needs and our other food needs.

I am absolutely incandescent with rage over this. He should have been shutting the european fleets out not welcoming them in. but hey no one cares if our waters are completely overfished and we lose all of our biodiversity do they.

What like Germany you mean... now in recession!!! And other EU countries that don't have sufficient jobs for their young....so yes lets import their young to further drive down wages like we did before. Doh!

Why would anyone agree to be a RULE TAKER. Smacks of Labour wanting to sit on their arses and be yes men again given they're no idea to get out of this mess they've made.

Starmer the "Farmer Harmer" and his incompetent chancellor, Rachel from "customer complaints" have a massive black hole to fill... the illegal cross channel migrants don't have the talents to build all these new homes that the government's lauding so they're angling for EU migrants to come across and do excactly that.

Well, let's look at the facts, shall we?

We had a referendum to decide if we wanted to stay in the EU or leave the EU. We voted to leave the EU. And we left.

Then we had a general election in which one party stated very clearly in its manifesto that, if elected, it would renegotiate our relationship with the EU. We elected that party to form a government. And the elected government went on to renegotiate our relationship with the EU, as set out in its manifesto.

Which part of the above do you consider to be unacceptable, exactly?

Or is it that you only believe in democracy when it produces a result that you like?

Brexit is a failure.

Recognise this.