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Starmer is about to reverse Brexit

806 replies

TheQuirkyMaker · 19/05/2025 11:27

Is is right that an unpopular govt can reverse the democratic wishes of the UK to have nothing to do with Europe?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
GasperyJacquesRoberts · 30/05/2025 08:44

@brexitbarbie oh dear. It wasn't me who used the knitting club analogy. Do try to keep up.

DuncinToffee · 30/05/2025 08:48

brexitbarbie · 30/05/2025 08:42

"You could have negotiated better deals whilst in the club, you had an important say in the decision making process and a veto"

Not when other members formed cartels and used "block voting" to get their way.

You could have done the same.

Why are you pretending the UK wasn't an important member of the EU with a lot of influence

brexitbarbie · 30/05/2025 08:49

GasperyJacquesRoberts · 30/05/2025 08:44

@brexitbarbie oh dear. It wasn't me who used the knitting club analogy. Do try to keep up.

So I now see.

It is difficult to keep up when so many Remoaners Remainers are indulging in Ad Hominem attacks. It's hard to keep pace with the constant stream and direction of the vitriol they spew out.

brexitbarbie · 30/05/2025 08:51

DuncinToffee · 30/05/2025 08:48

You could have done the same.

Why are you pretending the UK wasn't an important member of the EU with a lot of influence

"Why are you pretending the UK wasn't an important member of the EU with a lot of influence"

Not enough influence to get live exports banned though.

DuncinToffee · 30/05/2025 08:52

Is that all you got?

If you are interested
https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2018/07/09/british-influence-in-brussels-had-been-far-greater-than-recognised/

brexitbarbie · 30/05/2025 08:57

DuncinToffee · 30/05/2025 08:52

"Is that all you got?"

I'm not sure what you mean by that, but if you don't think animal welfare is important that says a lot about you.

DuncinToffee · 30/05/2025 09:01

Farmers could have decided not to live export, so yes is that all you got?

Alexandra2001 · 30/05/2025 09:09

brexitbarbie · 30/05/2025 08:51

"Why are you pretending the UK wasn't an important member of the EU with a lot of influence"

Not enough influence to get live exports banned though.

Yet the UK still allows the live transportation of animals from Scotland to Cornwall and anywhere else in between....

Why isn't that banned? totally within our gift..... journey times often longer than transportation in Europe...

brexitbarbie · 30/05/2025 09:37

Alexandra2001 · 30/05/2025 09:09

Yet the UK still allows the live transportation of animals from Scotland to Cornwall and anywhere else in between....

Why isn't that banned? totally within our gift..... journey times often longer than transportation in Europe...

Don't think that animal welfare groups haven't tried to get this cruel trade stopped. However, it is driven by market forces.
As long as people choose to eat meat it will continue.

There has been a reduction in meat-eating with 2.1% of the UK population identifying as vegetarian in 2000.
Now (2025) it stands at 11.5%. (This doesn't include those who don't eat beef following the BSE outbreak)

So smaller slaughterhouses have gone out of business.
The larger slaughterhouses rely on economies of scale to stay in business. They need to source from a wider area to maintain throughput.

This can mean longer journeys for animals.

There are regulations about live transport see here -

www.rspca.org.uk/adviceandwelfare/farm/livetransport

pointythings · 30/05/2025 09:37

brexitbarbie · 30/05/2025 08:40

!. Yes

2.Not if I am outvoted by other Members who have an interest in pushing bigger needles for example

Outvoted? You mean like in our Parliament? Like in a ... democracy?

brexitbarbie · 30/05/2025 09:39

DuncinToffee · 30/05/2025 09:01

Farmers could have decided not to live export, so yes is that all you got?

Please see my response at 9.37

and more info here.

https://www.ciwf.org.uk/our-campaigns/ban-live-exports-internationally/

DuncinToffee · 30/05/2025 09:40

brexitbarbie · 30/05/2025 09:39

Please see my response at 9.37

and more info here.

https://www.ciwf.org.uk/our-campaigns/ban-live-exports-internationally/

Edited

It is all you got.

brexitbarbie · 30/05/2025 09:43

@DuncinToffee "It is all you got."

So what information do you actually want?

DuncinToffee · 30/05/2025 09:55

brexitbarbie · 30/05/2025 09:43

@DuncinToffee "It is all you got."

So what information do you actually want?

I was asking why you were saying that the UK had no influence on the EU decision making process.

brexitbarbie · 30/05/2025 09:59

DuncinToffee · 30/05/2025 09:55

I was asking why you were saying that the UK had no influence on the EU decision making process.

Because it couldn't get live exports stopped because of EU regulations.

I have already explained why in some detail

DuncinToffee · 30/05/2025 10:01

brexitbarbie · 30/05/2025 09:59

Because it couldn't get live exports stopped because of EU regulations.

I have already explained why in some detail

So because other members voted against this particular proposal, the UK had no influence at all?

brexitbarbie · 30/05/2025 10:19

DuncinToffee · 30/05/2025 10:01

So because other members voted against this particular proposal, the UK had no influence at all?

This is getting rather tiresome.

Have you not read/understood any of my posts on this issue?

The stumbling block was the EU regulation that categorised animals as "goods" for the purposes of certain regulations, particularly those related to trade and border controls. They have consistently refused to alter this to "livestock".
Any interference in the trade in "goods" between member States (and beyond) was illegal and subject to penalties.

So Live Transport of Animals couldn't be stopped.

So the bloated plutocracy that is the EU says that it's OK to transport 15 day old calves across Europe 400 at a time in a lorry, without food and water and then on to Middle Eastern slaughter houses to have their throats ripped open.
Yet it tells me I can't have a bigger vacuum cleaner that will actually suck up dog hairs.

I said up thread I thought that the EU was full of morons - I'll qualify that and say it's full of cruel morons who need to realign their moral compasses.

LynneTheseAreSexPeople · 30/05/2025 10:26

It's quite a good idea for the knitting club to ask whether you are using non flammable yarn and buttons which are safe for babies.... And of course as a member, you get a say in deciding the rules.

Yes of course they can check but they are saying I must buy my buttons through them and cannot go directly to source. Even though my standards are higher than a lot of members in the club.

Not only that I have to pay for 2/3rds of the members membership fee and pay for their taxis to our meetings and the sandwiches/drinks. Because I am the second richest in the group, they say it's my duty to put my hand in my pocket. Of course, I argued as I spend way more on buying the members' goods, then they ever buy from me. I am a good member. A good buyer for the club members. I give balanced advice on knitting and am respected by peers in the club and outside of it.

They huffed and puffed but offered a partial refund as long as I spent the money on things they agreed with. I wanted a new fence. They said no. The money must be spent on a stair carpet.

brexitbarbie · 30/05/2025 10:30

LynneTheseAreSexPeople · 30/05/2025 10:26

It's quite a good idea for the knitting club to ask whether you are using non flammable yarn and buttons which are safe for babies.... And of course as a member, you get a say in deciding the rules.

Yes of course they can check but they are saying I must buy my buttons through them and cannot go directly to source. Even though my standards are higher than a lot of members in the club.

Not only that I have to pay for 2/3rds of the members membership fee and pay for their taxis to our meetings and the sandwiches/drinks. Because I am the second richest in the group, they say it's my duty to put my hand in my pocket. Of course, I argued as I spend way more on buying the members' goods, then they ever buy from me. I am a good member. A good buyer for the club members. I give balanced advice on knitting and am respected by peers in the club and outside of it.

They huffed and puffed but offered a partial refund as long as I spent the money on things they agreed with. I wanted a new fence. They said no. The money must be spent on a stair carpet.

Love it !
Keep 'em coming !

😆😆

GasperyJacquesRoberts · 30/05/2025 10:36

brexitbarbie · 30/05/2025 08:49

So I now see.

It is difficult to keep up when so many Remoaners Remainers are indulging in Ad Hominem attacks. It's hard to keep pace with the constant stream and direction of the vitriol they spew out.

I'm sorry if you've been triggered by people pointing out that a lot of what you're saying shows that you don't understand politics, economics or pretty much anything other than the blatant fantasies that Farage etc has spouted.

Have you tried being less of an easily-offended snowflake?

DuncinToffee · 30/05/2025 10:56

I left the club and now I have neither a fence or a stair carpet, I have managed to get a doormat from a far away country for an inflated price.

I am thinking of a reset now but apparently it is a betrayal to want to undo some of the damage caused.

brexitbarbie · 30/05/2025 11:24

GasperyJacquesRoberts · 30/05/2025 10:36

I'm sorry if you've been triggered by people pointing out that a lot of what you're saying shows that you don't understand politics, economics or pretty much anything other than the blatant fantasies that Farage etc has spouted.

Have you tried being less of an easily-offended snowflake?

Thanks for very ably demonstrating the sour residual Remoaner Remainer mindset. I do understand where you are coming from.

To the committed Europhile, it was totally unthinkable that a majority would vote against their wishes because they considered themselves to occupy the intellectual, moral, and political high ground.
It’s not going too far to say they considered themselves to be some sort of Ubermenschen, and anybody who disagreed with them was an inferior specimen of humanity, even “lunatics” and in the worst cases some Remainers said outright that they considered Leavers to be sub-human! That’s the reason we saw and heard phrases like “gammon”, “ignorant”, “xenophobe”, and “anybody in their right mind”,
In fact they had a good excuse for this sort of behaviour: for forty years or so we’d been letting all sorts of undeservedly, entitled, arrogant arseholes get away with it, as they assumed a tighter grip on the reins. This time though, they were about to get their comeuppance, although they did not know it. The reason they did not know it was the usual one for being wrong - they gazed at poor samples fed into a spreadsheet and concluded that they could not lose.

So firmly convinced were they that they could not lose that the inherent unpleasantness of some of these individuals was allowed full rein, and their campaign took on a very spiteful demeanour. (Some of which continues today) As usual though they had not analysed the data correctly. They had not analysed the convictions of marginal voters nor taken into account the actions of the “don’t knows”.

So nasty was some of the Remain campaign that it caused a section of waverers to be loath to be associated with them. How much difference that made is a moot point, but the fact remains that from the Leave perspective the other side pushing votes to you is an incredible bonus. And yet not one of them could see it and thus no attempt was made to curb the incivilities of the more flamboyant zealots.
You can see it in their prosework even today. They claim to have had an education, but if they have it certainly wasn’t in the trivium because not one of them comprehends even the basis of rhetoric and that well-done rhetoric can be a powerful tool to your cause but clumsily handled pieces will in fact cause your potential adherents to flee to the other camp.
They can't construct a compelling narrative; they’ve never had a reason to, the insulting,screaming and shouting has always worked in the past and the reaction has become something of a Pavlovian one with them.

More level heads attempted to present economic prediction intermingled with the spite; but as we all know, economics, like fluid dynamics, is subject to the idiosyncracy of chaotically-moving systems and therefore to a Navier-Stokes; it’s impossible to fully resolve any movement in Newtonian fluids en masse and that’s with rational materials that have little choice but to obey nature.
How much more difficult to resolve a system denuded of rationalities like the rise and fall of economies?
It is said that an economist is a man who will spend the beginning of each working day explaining why the prophecies he expounded yesterday afternoon failed to manifest, and the end of each working day explaining why the prophecies he made in the middle will be much better tomorrow. (Sounds about right.)

And deep down most intelligent people know that drunken chimps with darts would have an equal track record to the economic experts. This approach would and could do nothing except entrench the already converted in their positions. Which, when one believes that one cannot lose, is entirely the correct approach. When one is wrong about that, it’s entirely the course that will steer too close to the sandbanks, and if left unchecked will see your cause run aground and dismasted.

As we saw.

They will never blame themselves though, and in fairness the blame is only slightly on them; whilst it is true that they had no skilful Cicero nor Voltaire on their side, it’s because they are devoid of talent and one can hardly blame the ungifted for their lack of competence in the field, can we?

I suppose we could blame the EU. Ursula they can’t Writethen.

cardibach · 30/05/2025 11:48

Despite your view of the hatefulness of remainers, @brexitbarbie , it’s your side (and you, despite the PA strike outs) who persist with name calling ‘remoaner’ and accusations of being anti U.K. Odd.

brexitbarbie · 30/05/2025 12:10

Not odd at all.

The Cult of Remain (cult, I said, read it again) made many prophecies. The first one was that they wouldn’t lose the referendum. Which was wrong.
Then they prophesied that unemployment would go up. Which was wrong. Then they prophesied that simultaneously there would be huge queues of lorries at Dover but no lorry drivers.
I don’t know why these Schroedinger’s queues would be at Dover, because the prophets forecast that we wouldn’t be able to trade with Europe. They said that sport in the UK would suffer. That there would be shortages of comestibles. And medicines.

As we know absolutely nothing foretold came to pass and whilst most of them realised that they’d been panicking like a lot of old drama queens and talking nonsense, some of them clung on to the blessed writings of Knowsnowtdamus and entrenched themselves in it.
They were like all zealots to a cause, they refuse to be swayed away. Even their favourite gospel, the Guardian, had to admit that it had been largely wrong about Brexit, but that’s not going to sway the faithful.

The other thing of course is that these people were in the lucky few that benefited greatly from the EU one way or another. Now they’ve been weaned off the teat they’re unable to alter the trim of their sails and want to cry like toddlers about it.
They could have poured their energies into the fact that we were coming out of the EU and dealing with it, as they had three and a half years to prepare, but no, they formed the Church of the Perpetual Remoan instead.

DuncinToffee · 30/05/2025 12:26

It's all brexiteers have left, name calling.

Brexit happened in 2020, they won. They just don't like the prize.

Meanwhile the UK will start rebuilding closer ties with the EU, even Farage won't reverse the deals being made