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Starmer is about to reverse Brexit

806 replies

TheQuirkyMaker · 19/05/2025 11:27

Is is right that an unpopular govt can reverse the democratic wishes of the UK to have nothing to do with Europe?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
brexitbarbie · 24/05/2025 07:51

HarrietBond · 24/05/2025 07:48

My obsession with facts actually. I think they are really important and people who post inaccurate nonsense about really important things are damaging our society, so yes, I care.

Your c&p above - do you know exactly what payment it’s describing and what the situation is now, several years later? Or did you just find that on a biased website and plop it on here? Again, that matters to me. Because it predates a change in rules and no longer reflects reality.

www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/faq/12/ethics-and-transparency

My last C & P was dated 2025, so quite relevant IMO

As is this one - https://transparency.eu/new-european-parliament-corruption-allegations-transparency-international-eu-response/

brexitbarbie · 24/05/2025 07:58

More info here -

https://left.eu/corruption-in-the-european-parliament-again/

HarrietBond · 24/05/2025 07:58

Last year, (2018) a European Parliament committee called for more transparency over a €4,416-a-month lump sum given to MEPs with no questions asked over how they spend it.

This is now out of date.

Random links to random politicians fiddling their expenses can be found everywhere unfortunately, including our own sovereign parliament. It’s a shame but as we all sadly know too well, we don’t live in a perfect world. The European system is not perfect. It is not however structurally lacking accountability or democracy.

There are quite a few legitimate concerns about the transparency of the functioning of some of the European bodies. Anyone who has been genuinely interested in the machinery of Europe is well aware of them. I know people who voted for Brexit out of genuine concern for those. Many are being or have been addressed, whereas others are probably harder to resolve. A thread to discuss those would be quite interesting to me. They don’t however make much difference to the economic benefits of EU membership for the UK.

HarrietBond · 24/05/2025 08:02

Excellent! This is better - far better to discuss accurately rather than just share outdated links. And yes, you’re quite right. MEPs have long been criticised for this sort of behaviour and the 2023 reforms didn’t go far enough for some people.

brexitbarbie · 24/05/2025 08:04

@HarrietBond It is not however structurally lacking accountability or democracy.

Are you having a laugh?

They don’t however make much difference to the economic benefits of EU membership for the UK.

That's like saying an employee doesn't hurt a business because they only stole peper-clips and not the office computer !

celticnations · 24/05/2025 08:09

Better Together.

We heard that before in Scotland. So if it applies to the UK, why not Europe?

Same intrinsic argument.

HarrietBond · 24/05/2025 08:11

No, it’s not.

Structurally it is a functioning democratic system. You claimed it wasn’t. It is. It is far from perfect but it is not broken and the UK had a voice in how it worked when we were a member, a loud one, which we now no longer have.

And again, some fiddling of expenses by politicians, which happens everywhere, including here, is not causing economic damage to member states. It erodes respect in politicians, again like in the UK, and it would be amazing if we could remove self interest but sadly impossible in the human nature, but it is not unique to the EP.

Just because a system isn’t perfect doesn’t mean it’s broken beyond the point of value. That’s just simplistic thinking. Our own political system has its issues which are rarely discussed but figure nowhere on Reform’s agenda (or any other political party). Our delegated legislation system in our own Houses of Parliament is deeply flawed for example.

brexitbarbie · 24/05/2025 08:12

HarrietBond · 24/05/2025 08:02

Excellent! This is better - far better to discuss accurately rather than just share outdated links. And yes, you’re quite right. MEPs have long been criticised for this sort of behaviour and the 2023 reforms didn’t go far enough for some people.

I'm glad you admit that the EU is a corrupt and wasteful, unaccountable ediface.

https://transparency.eu/future-of-fighting-corruption-in-the-eu-stands-on-knifes-edge/

And as it loses £990 billion to corruption, we aren't talking about a market trader overcharging for apples here. 🙄

https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_reports/RR1483.html

HarrietBond · 24/05/2025 08:18

Those links are about a different thing though? Corruption within member states would include awarding large government contracts without due process, not something the UK post-Brexit can claim to have avoided, eh?

Just googling ‘costs EU corruption’ may not get you quite what you need!

HarrietBond · 24/05/2025 08:20

Anyway, life calls. But I’m so pleased to see you making some efforts with facts now. Do have a good look around to see what would support your comments on the economic damage of ‘getting involved with the EU’ if you have a moment.

brexitbarbie · 24/05/2025 08:21

And we still haven't got the full picture about this latest "reset" that's been signed on our behalf.

It seems the costings aren't in yet, so brace yourselves folks -

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clyz2jegmm3o

brexitbarbie · 24/05/2025 08:23

HarrietBond · 24/05/2025 08:20

Anyway, life calls. But I’m so pleased to see you making some efforts with facts now. Do have a good look around to see what would support your comments on the economic damage of ‘getting involved with the EU’ if you have a moment.

Are you normally so patronising or do you just try hard? 😄

Maybe you have taken a leaf out of Stamer's book ? 🤔

SinnerBoy · 24/05/2025 08:24

brexitbarbie · Today 06:40

++Instead of fiddling his expenses? Which wasn't a criminal offence in the European Parliament, unlike in the UK.++

That's not exactly correct -

Hmm. A soft soap interview of Farridge dating to before UKIP were made to pay back more than 500 thousand Euro of misappropriated funds. 35,000 odd for him personally, wasn't it?

Well! That's me convinced that he's an all round good egg, who wasn't on the fiddle.

I could go back far enough with any //insert political bugbear / hero of choice// and find something positive about them, before their fall and like you, ignore the later proof.

Time, its a funny old thing, what with it being linear, eh?

brexitbarbie · 24/05/2025 08:26

@SinnerBoy "35,000 odd for him personally, wasn't it?"

Err no it was for his assistant.

brexitbarbie · 24/05/2025 08:30

HarrietBond · 24/05/2025 08:20

Anyway, life calls. But I’m so pleased to see you making some efforts with facts now. Do have a good look around to see what would support your comments on the economic damage of ‘getting involved with the EU’ if you have a moment.

You do realise you've just outed yourself as a school marm? (And probably a maths one, given your preoccupation with figures)

I'm just waiting for "Must try harder", "Untidy work", and "Use a fountain pen".and the ubiquitous "See me" 😆

And please, no more homework.
I have to go to work to keep the wheels of industry turning.

Alexandra2001 · 24/05/2025 08:51

brexitbarbie · 24/05/2025 08:23

Are you normally so patronising or do you just try hard? 😄

Maybe you have taken a leaf out of Stamer's book ? 🤔

ha ha more hypocrisy!

pointythings · 24/05/2025 09:14

brexitbarbie · 24/05/2025 08:30

You do realise you've just outed yourself as a school marm? (And probably a maths one, given your preoccupation with figures)

I'm just waiting for "Must try harder", "Untidy work", and "Use a fountain pen".and the ubiquitous "See me" 😆

And please, no more homework.
I have to go to work to keep the wheels of industry turning.

Edited

Brexiteer doesn't like actual facts and data. Hold the front page!

inkognithia · 24/05/2025 09:30

brexitbarbie · 24/05/2025 08:30

You do realise you've just outed yourself as a school marm? (And probably a maths one, given your preoccupation with figures)

I'm just waiting for "Must try harder", "Untidy work", and "Use a fountain pen".and the ubiquitous "See me" 😆

And please, no more homework.
I have to go to work to keep the wheels of industry turning.

Edited

Ad hominem attacks are infantile, intellectually lazy, and detract from - rather than support - the force of any argument you are attempting to support.

You will find that by responding, even if it's in opposition, to the specific facts that people are explaining to you, there's a much greater chance your contribution to the dialogue will be seen as having value.

@HarrietBond's comment of "I’m so pleased to see you making some efforts with facts now. Do have a good look around to see what would support your comments on the economic damage of ‘getting involved with the EU’ if you have a moment.", whilst undoubtedly amusingly snarky, is also factually accurate based on your behaviour thus far.

You began by repeatedly choosing not to engage directly with various posters - including myself - who had taken the time to carefully lay out facts before you, preferring instead to either ignore the facts that are inconveniently undeniable and/or to then post unrelated links, many of them from biased sources, that you felt proved you right.

As the thread has worn on, you've gotten a lot better at reading and understanding what's been said to you, and trying to respond to those points directly. We still think you're wrong, and can and have consistently shown you why with relevant information, but I think what @HarrietBond was suggesting is that she's happy you've now moved beyond the intellectual equivalent of shouting "lalala I'm not listening".

DuncinToffee · 24/05/2025 10:28

Guardian writer

Top July 2016
Bottom May 2025

Starmer is about to reverse Brexit
TheQuirkyMaker · 24/05/2025 13:29

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 23/05/2025 16:38

No we won't, don't be daft.

Maybe Reform UK is what we need to finally make Brexit work the way the people who voted for it intended it to work.

OP posts:
SinnerBoy · 24/05/2025 13:33

Do you think that they voted to have the NHS sold off to Farridge's American insurance companies, so that he could get a fat wedge? Or to cut all social services? And bankrupt us faster than Liz Truss?

Because that's their intention. Well, they probably don't actively want to bankrupt us, but that's what they'd do.

DuncinToffee · 24/05/2025 13:35

TheQuirkyMaker · 24/05/2025 13:29

Maybe Reform UK is what we need to finally make Brexit work the way the people who voted for it intended it to work.

How?

Nobody voted on what kind of Brexit they wanted

What does a Reform Brexit look like?

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 24/05/2025 13:36

TheQuirkyMaker · 24/05/2025 13:29

Maybe Reform UK is what we need to finally make Brexit work the way the people who voted for it intended it to work.

It won't ever work because it was always a fucking stupid idea.

And Reform couldn't run a bath, let alone a country.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 24/05/2025 13:37

DuncinToffee · 24/05/2025 13:35

How?

Nobody voted on what kind of Brexit they wanted

What does a Reform Brexit look like?

Unicorn GIF by MOODMAN

Like this.

Notonthestairs · 24/05/2025 13:40

TheQuirkyMaker · 24/05/2025 13:29

Maybe Reform UK is what we need to finally make Brexit work the way the people who voted for it intended it to work.

please elaborate on what a Reform Brexit looks like.

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