Are parents of 'Trans' children aware of the damage of full affirmation?

[Iloverosesandcarnations]

All children go through a stage of who am I? Confusion etc.

Am I a boy, a girl, do I fit it etc.

The social contagion of affirmation of 'I'm in the wrong body, so need to change it' it IMO so damaging.

Talking through, understanding that all children go through 'who am I'
rather than initial blind affirmation and ok.lrts change your name, clothing etc tell school rush into changes young BEFORE maturation, is so dangerous.

You are still wrong. It is completely wrong to say everyone with an intersex conditions is still either male or female with some abnormalities. That doesn't mean there is a third sex, it means that some people cannot categorically be defined as male or female and at some point they or a doctor or their parents will choose what gender they present as. Increasingly there is pressure to leave that decision as long as possible so that the individual themselves can decide.

Nope. Every single person who's ever lived is either male or female. There is no third sex and there is no 'in between'.

The reason why there is no 'in between' is because once a body goes down one developmental pathway (small or large gametes) it (by necessity) shuts down the other.

No person, in the history of human civilisation has developed to produce both.

And yet again, why this is always being brought up with regards to trans identification is a mystery, as there is literally no correlation between being trans and having a DSD.

The fact that a doctor is uncertain doesn’t change reality, they are still either male or female… there are only two sexes…

we are also discussing a number of births that is so small that it is extremely rare

A specialist doctor in the field maybe insure, until they do testing. Then it will be clarified.

I think the correlation is the very small amount of people who have something like Swyers syndrome where a person is genetically male but had developed many female characteristics including functioning wombs but not ovaries that they are outwardly female and often are brought up female and they are accepted as female. This is then used as the gotcha that we can’t have sex based rights as these people don’t fall neatly into the male/female camp.

but it is ridiculous to use a small group of people who don’t want to be involved in this debate to circumvent a rule which works for 99.999% of the population.

Intersex conditions are rare, as are trans people. In fact they occur at roughly the same rate in the population.

I think any more discussion here is pointless. You are repeating things which are objectively false. Yes there are two sexes. But also, some people do not fit into either of those categories. To say that an intersex person must be (e.g.) male with abnormalities rather than intersex would be offensive. I am not going to argue with you any further.

Well let’s start with the more commonly used terminology?! DSD not intersex…

precisely to avoid the incorrect assumption that when there is uncertainty you sit somewhere inbetween!!!!!

I am glad though that you agree there are only two sexes - it really is the fact that underpins all these discussions

Yes, a very typical profile and sadly a familiar story for many teenage girls. Possibly also a gender non-conforming lesbian who spent a lot of time online, especially in fandom spaces?

I encourage you to contact the Bayswater group another poster signposted for support and advice.

For someone who claims to work in the field....intersex is a term that has not been used for a long time because it's not actually factually true.

And you're arguing that there isn't only the two sexes but yet have now said there is.

You seem to be contradicting yourself a lot and not actually providing anything to back yourself up.

To say that an intersex person must be (e.g.) male with abnormalities rather than intersex would be offensive

Males/females with differences in sexual development. Nothing even remotely offensive about that.

Now that is shocking. Poor child.

All “intersex” people, or those with a DSD as is more appropriate to refer to, are either male or female. By the very nature of having received their diagnosis, they will know what sex they are. Having outward genitalia that did not develop typically, or some ambiguous secondary sex characteristics does not change the fact that they will be either male or female. There is no third sex or “in between”.

Thanks - very detailed response.

there is another link for resources here too & a good overview too.

You sound like a very caring and thoughtful person who cares deeply about welfare of young people. There does seem to be more progress being made on equality, acceptance of difference and diversity, which is very positive.
The link below probably articulated best too.

www.hrc.org/resources/transgender-children-and-youth-understanding-the-basics

Well - that is a link / page full of inaccuracies!

All the usual ones:

• risk of suicide
• assigned at birth
• must affirm children who express themselves as transgender
• misuse of pronouns
• not something that you can change
• pronouns

And it is an American site - so not applicable to the UK.
And no references - just claims which are unsubstantiated.

If someone has concerns - start with organisations which base their information on truth and reality...

#returnToTruth

There have been so many threads on mumsnet where knowledgeable people come on to give corrected information about the statistics of DSDs ( I see a few posts ago someone yet again said something false about this); the truth about suicides and so on.

There ought to be a chart somewhere. It gets so laborious and boring going over the false trans activist statements again and again.

People with DSD's have repeatedly asked not to be involved in conversations about genderborg. And the correct term is intersex.

sadly and frustratingly a part of previous tactics has been a scatter-gun approach to inaccurate information being disseminated anywhere and everywhere... the reality is that those posting don't actually have an interest generally in hearing the truth, but just want to fill the airwaves with their version of noise in the belief that others will only see that and believe it as truth...

the only counter to that is the boring and tedious approach of continually correcting it - fortunately there are more people who know and understand truth and reality than those spreading inaccuracies...

I am not sure that I agree...

Intersex is the original term
DSD came in in 2006 so has ben the 'replacement' for nearly two decades.

In use there are differences: (looking at the first three from the 'this is intersex.org' website)

Intersex:

• works from the perspective of the social sciences
• is based on lived experience
• sees biological sex as a spectrum

DSD:

• works on the basis of medicine
• is based on the physical body and its processes
• sees biological sex as a dichotomy

Which of those two is based in biology / reality / and an understanding that there are only two sexes? DSD.

As with so many things, terminology is being hijacked all around us - the new terminology is DSD and that is how it is medically referred - as we are concerned here with truth, not fantasy it is important to use the term that recognises that biological truth - is based on science - sees only two options etc. Rather than the re-adoption of the word intersex to imply that there is a spectrum and all desired outcomes are possible...

So for me - DSD is accurate, intersex is not - as confirmed by those in that world.

#returnToTruth

Hi, we do think differently and that’s okay. One thing tho, do think there the issues happening to trans people in America and UK, aren’t so different, gently suggest the advice is pertinent.

This again and again

In this discussion there is right and wrong - especially in how points are framed.

the two sites you have referenced are both wrong with deliberate misdirection and misinformation.

the legal position is different in the UK and the USA with clarity reinforced and biological truth embedded in law in the UK

it is critical therefore that we reference accurate sites

#returnToTruth

I just came across this piece on X which feels very relevant to this thread. It's a hard, but empathetic read.

https://genspect.org/the-narrative-around-affirming-parents-doesnt-tell-the-full-story/

A good article to read - it is why I posted towards the top of this thread the challenges we have with the system / society / schools / captured organisations / etc. - very often a parent has lost all influence. There are ways which work for some parents such as reaffirming that you can be any shape of boy / girl you wish, but can't change - but the strength of the message that you are trans and need surgery is a weight pressing down on the situation - put there by activists with dubious intent and piled on top by all the organisations who should be supporting both child and parent (schools / GPs / NHS / mental health / charities / government / commercial companies etc.) every organisation which stands up for the deceptions which society has been fed shares a part of the responsibility for that pressure / part of the responsibility for the lack of safeguarding / part of the responsibility for the child abuse that our society has allowed to take place...