Are parents of 'Trans' children aware of the damage of full affirmation?

[Iloverosesandcarnations]

All children go through a stage of who am I? Confusion etc.

Am I a boy, a girl, do I fit it etc.

The social contagion of affirmation of 'I'm in the wrong body, so need to change it' it IMO so damaging.

Talking through, understanding that all children go through 'who am I'
rather than initial blind affirmation and ok.lrts change your name, clothing etc tell school rush into changes young BEFORE maturation, is so dangerous.

How is anyone stopping people with DSDs living peacefully in society?

And why would anyone entirely define their 'lived exierience' via any body part of singular aspect of themselves?

What an odd reply

There are actually stories of people spending thousands on plastic surgery to "become" cats, dogs, other animals.

It's obviously not the same, because it's a different species rather than a different sex of the same species, but if a child came to you and said they wanted to physically turn themselves into a cat because that's what they related most to, would you immediately affirm that this was right for them? Or would you tell them that it's not possible to make that change?

There's an Australian tiktoker who did it as a publicity stunt and is now reversing it but it's caused all sorts of damage to her body. A Japanese man who has spend thousands to be a collie. There's rumours of schools in the world allowing children to identify as animals.

At what point do we stop the identifying as something they are not?

As far as being trans goes, it's gender, which is a social construct and in all reality means nothing because clothes are clothes, jobs are jobs, they are neither male nor female. It cannot be sex because you cannot change that. DSDs have differences in their development (hence the use of DSD to describe the condition) but are still one sex or the other.

I'm simply not going to engage with the cat argument. It's ridiculous and a bad faith argument.

Am just adding this from Smartphone Free Childhood in case any parents would like to join up. The speaker explains how depression,, self harm etc among young people has grown exponentially since smart phones were introduced in 2010.

We also know that there has been pressure on children from on-line forums including pressure from gender ideology and tras.

I am sorry to say - this is inaccurate.
Differences in numbers of fingers on a hand / abnormalities in arm etc. are often harassed and excluded - because they are different - it happens with things as simple as a birth mark, so it should not surprise that those born with deformed arms are also recipients of stress / pressure / harassment / discrimination / etc.

Many of those people do define their lives by their lived experience - usually for the negative.

Arms and hands can in fact be more complex than sex - everyone is born either male or female - even those who have DSD conditions are always male or female. Yet there are operations taking place every day on children born with extra fingers / joined up fingers / too few fingers / deformed limbs / etc. In fact the beauty of sex is its immutable binary nature to the extent that no-one has ever been born a sex other than male or female - where as (certainly for fingers) there is no such rigid rule and there are thousands of children born outside the 'standard' of 4 fingers and a thumb on each hand (and then we get onto toes!)

So in fact the 'spectrum' of differences for limbs is far greater and far more frequent than for DSD - yet we still accept that as humans we are made with two arms / 8 fingers / two thumbs / etc.

The existence of a DSD does not change the underlying sex - humans are only born male or female - it really is that simple - no desire for it to be different will change it / nomade up claims and pseudo-science from those needing validation and their supportive organisations will change it - 2 sexes, end of story.

Exactly. Anne Bolleyn had 6 toes but does that mean we as a species are a 6-toed species. If I said I identify as Anne Bolleyn and wanted to add an extra toe I wouldn't be allowed to do that would I? No, because it's impossible. Like "transitioning".

Well of course the analogy isn't going to work if you introduce a straw man fallacy by conflating sex with gender. I wasn't talking about social constructs, I was talking about the science of sex being binary.

Having said that, I would imagine that for anyone living without the standard number of limbs it very much is part of their identity.

How so?

Please explain the reasoning behind it being bad faith to say that I am a human woman and therefore I can never be a man or a cat? Those two things are both biologically true.

'Trans' is possibly the most evil thing I've seen in my lifetime. The blame for which should be laid on Stonewall, Mermaids and all the numerous trans charities that have sprung up.
You cannot change sex.
You don't need to conform to stereotypes.
You don't need medication and surgery to make you conform.
Older blokes dressed-up as women should not be hanging around with vulnerable teen girls and pretending they are all trans.
Men's sexual fetishes doesn't make them women.
Non-binary is rubbish and offensive as it means they think being a woman is just "conforming to stereotypes" and "performing femininity" - grrrr!

Ah the conflation of 'sex' and 'gender' which has been such a vital tool for TRAs.
'Sex': there are 2 sexes in human beings. No, clownfish, fungi and avocados are not relevant before anyone treads that well-worn path. And no, the difference in sexual characteristics between individuals of the same sex is also not relevant: just because I'm flat-chested doesn't mean I'm not female.
'Gender' : a social construct, and if people feel their 'gender' is different from their 'sex', they can only say that by reference to stereotypes based within those social constructs.

The reason I wont engage it because it takes so much energy. It happens to trans people all the time, every time they try and engage in some sort of discussion around whether they should have basic rights they are forced into these ridiculous conversations about things like identifying as a cat, or people with six toes, or whether arm length is a spectrum. Its exhausting, and it stops the actual issues being discussed. Its also really stupid, I mean just immensely dumb, to think that because people don't go around identifying as cats it somehow follows that they can't change their gender.

Again, gender is a social construct. You can identify as whatever gender you need to, because in reality, it doesn't exist.

You cannot change your sex to fit your gender because

A) gender doesn't actually exist except in people's minds, and
B) sex is fixed, biologically it's impossible.

You are biologically male but identify more with the socially accepted things of being a woman, fine. Do those things. Same the other way round. But you cannot change your sex anymore than you can become a dog. It's a biological fact.

And no one here is saying trans people shouldn't have basic rights. They're just saying it's not correct to tell people they can change sex. They should have rights. As should women. Neither should take rights from the others.

What basic rights don't trans people have?
1.They have exactly the same rights as everyone else (because, yes, 'trans rights are human rights and trans people are humans). 2.They also have' extra' rights against discrimination under the Equality Act.
The only right that transwomen don't have is to use the 'extra' rights granted to women (ie people of the female sex) under the Equality Act.
That is because if women's rights - granted to women to allow them to compete equally with men - are then also given to men, the law becomes meaningless. In the same way as if rights granted to disabled people to allow them equal access to society were granted to non-disabled people, that would also make the extra rights meaningless.

It doesn't need to take any energy at all...

the facts are simple - born a man - always a man / born a woman - always a woman.

how you wish to display your masculinity or femininity is totally up to you - a man can be as 'feminine as they wish, a woman can be as 'masculine as they wish - neither changes their sex.

Nor does how you act or feel ever change your gender - gender is a social construct which is basically a reflection of how society sees a man or woman in this geography in this age. It has changed in the UK over the centuries (regency men wore high heels / make up / wigs / beauty spots / jewellery etc.) and it varies today across different cultures around the world. It is totally fluid and in effect is the essence or 'average' or 'norm' of all men or all women in that society. To embrace aspects of the 'other gender' doesn't make you that gender - it simply extends the boundaries of your own sex's gender and starts to shift how society sees men / women.

So a man wearing a skirt / pearls / makeup and shaving off their body hair doesn't become sex = woman, or gender = female - they simply become a different variety of man. If enough do it then the societal stereotype of a man changes and the gender definition morphs. There is already historical evidence for this - the current 'transgender' movement is only another part of the same...

The key thing is to separate the various things:

• how one thinks
• how one looks
• how one acts
• how one feels
• an individual's lived experience
• what one does to their body with hormones
• what one does to their body with surgery
• etc.

these are all what defines an individual as the man / woman they are born. They remain that sex / gender - but define themselves as an individual. So a man with breast implants or a woman with breast mastectomies remains exactly that - a form of man / a form of woman - they absolutely change the boundaries and 'average' or even the 'norm' if common enough of how society sees that gender, but:

• ability to change sex
• ability to change gender

Not possible

So gender - crack on you can do what you want
Sex - bad luck you are what you were born.

The biggest issue with this debate is that people confuse the two, which leads to people changing how they look / behave and then saying they have changed their sex - when they are simply expanding and innovating within their sex's gender...

Trans people have exactly the same basic rights as everyone else. They also exist. (And don't we know it.)

Its also really stupid, I mean just immensely dumb, to think that because people don't go around identifying as cats it somehow follows that they can't change their gender.

Just because you claim something is "immensely dumb" - or whatever - doesn't necessarily make it so. Hmm, now what does that remind me of...?🤔

It's funny that you picked up on that point as well, because that PP said that in response to me pointing out that there are reports of people identifying as cats 🤣

And thirdly, nobody defines their lived experience by the number of arms they have

I expect that people lacking one or more of their upper limbs do exactly that.

and for that reason nobody throughout history has felt the need to identify with a different number of limbs.

And yet they do. It’s a disorder called Bodily Integrity Disorder.

You already have basic rights - and you know it. This constant reiteration of mendacious mantras gets right on my nerves. It’s pathetic, frankly. You have the same rights as everyone else and you’re ‘allowed to exist’.

You either know all that, but are getting some kind of comfort from repeating these things, or you’re very young and you’ve been brainwashed to think people hate you/don’t want you to exist/blah blah.

Can you link to were JKR has claimed to be a medical expert or about the medical issues of trans people?

I can't remember a time when she has.

If there is a feeling that basic rights are lacking - do please list them as I would love to vocally advocate for those rights to be reinstated...

but as far as I am aware:

• a transwoman has all the rights of a man
• a transman has all the rights of a woman

so what rights are missing?

If on the other hand there is a desire to have access for transwomen to women's spaces / you feel that everyone must be compelled to recognise that you have changed sex or use your pronouns - then those things trample all over the basic rights of others, so a) are not missing basic rights for you - in fact b) they are not rights you have at all and c) I will strongly advocate against!

I can understand why so many parents, up to now, have bought in to this, for many of the reasons stated.
The experts, schools, the support groups (stonewall and mermaids et al) and the NHS referrals.
It has been a difficult road for them.

But those that I do not understand are those that have transitioned their very young children. children that have no idea about gender and are just playing with toys that they like or that their siblings play with and just want to be like their siblings.

That really bothers me too. There's a boy in my son's class who was socially transitioned by his parents when he was 5 (!!!) and is now wearing girls clothes, being called a girl, has changed name. My son was very confused about this in a practical way 'how come he's a boy but says he's a girl'? I was honest with him and said the boy was just confused and wanted to dress as a girl. There's no way I'm lying to my own child and partaking in that or condoning it although it's a fine line to tread. I get around the pronoun thing by always just calling him by his name. The poor kid though.

Poor kid. Only 5 years old. It feels like abuse

It certainly does. The parents are fulfilling some need in themselves in my opinion because I don't think kids could get ideas like that themselves, and I know that they brought him to different therapy sessions until they found someone who'd agree with them.

Yes. One (of the many) aspects I find quite horrific is the mass silencing, bullying and dismissal of those medically harmed by those steeped in gender ideology.

The inhumanity displayed by some people in their support of this cult is astounding. Anyone arguing to silence or minimise these detransitioners needs to have a serious word with themselves.

Individual stories are heartbreaking. Keira Bell coming to terms with the unnecessary removal of her breasts, harm to her long term health and possible fertility issues. Ritchie Herron describing how it feels to have had his penis removed but is left with a mound of penile tissue remaining that swells up. His incontinence and other medical issues. Girls get clitoral overgrowth that causes pain. Thinning bones, loss of teeth, heart problems, liver problems. Creating an unhealthy body from a healthy one.

There are so many of these stories coming along and will be more. They have been bullied and deplatformed to try and suppress their stories to ensure younger people are not forewarned of the realities of what they are doing to themselves.