To think unless you are ugly you’ve no idea what it’s like

[Riverrunswild83]

It’s made my life so difficult.
I understand about being a nice person etc and I am, I think. I try to be kind. I have hobbies. I don’t think I’m super dull or boring.

But I am ugly.

I a regularly ignored, even more so now I’m 40, and I’ve had friends openly laugh at the idea of me wearing a certain thing or going to a certain event.
I frequently feel more and more that the world is not set up for ugly people. It has hampered relationships and friendships and I believe my job prospects. It’s amazing how attractive people have an automatic advantage - this isn’t bitterness, it is fact. People flock to what they see as attractive and value it. Sure, I have made a reasonable reputation but I have had to work much harder for it.

I really think being ugly has made my life at least twice as hard as if I were average or attractive - from not getting served quickly in places, to struggling to make friends. People always assume if you are ugly you are worthless and increasingly I am starting to feel like I am.

AIBU to think the world is just not set up for ugly people?

We live in a very visual world. Most of us are fairly average I would say. Men seem to want to be rude x2 ,if young and pretty.they will try it on .young women being followed or cat called.plainer girls having rude comments, how dare they not look fuckable! I am sure you are fairly average op

You may not believe this, but there are disadvantages to being attractive too. In the workplace you can be seen as a bit “soft” or not serious enough. You mention struggling with friendships - this can be extremely difficult for attractive people too, as people can be so bitchy if you trigger their jealousy. They can see you as “competition”, no matter what you do or don’t do, or project their insecurities onto you.

I say this, not to invalidate your experience, but more so to provide perspective.

Anyway, what I will say about your friends is that they don’t sound like particularly nice people, I’m afraid! I do concede certain things may be easier for conventionally attractive people, but life shouldn’t be as difficult as you say it is based on this alone and I do suspect that you’ve not been surrounded by the “right” people.

In terms of your self-image, could you try a makeover? Do you apply makeup? You can contact makeup counters and ask for their help - they can book you in to both match you with products and show you how to use them properly. Less is more. Tame the mane regularly if you’re not already and don’t just throw it up/leave it to its own devices every day. Whether that’s achieved via products or heat tools will depend on your hair type and how you want it to look. Consistency is key to looking out together. Watch YouTube tutorials specific to your hair type and your goals.

A good skincare and oral care routine is a must, too. Again, less is more with skincare. Theres so much on the market but honestly I just love the brand ‘Simple’ - a good twice daily cleanser, moisturiser and an SPF for under makeup will do the trick. Get a good electric toothbrush and book regular dental check ups if you’re not already, and maybe invest in either Invisalign or a whitening course if either of those things would work for you. Also so important to move and nourish your body with the right foods.

You say you have hobbies. Lean into these even more - you can meet people through your hobbies whereby your connection will be more than surface deep. And hey, perhaps your current friends are actually threatened by your personality, wit, talents, etc etc… who knows? Their “looks” may be all they have…

Most importantly, you are NOT worthless!! Good luck!

Such an interesting thread, I was always overweight, wonky teeth, never the pretty one at school but lots of friends/decent personality. I assumed i was invisible in dating but i worked on my personality so ended up getting those great jobs anyway. I grew up and actually then got a lot of attention when dating on the apps by men saying I didn't see how sexy I was. Deep inside i saw myself as a bit of a slob/lumberer. I think somehow you have to believe in yourself and what you can offer. I still go through low points when I feel that way but have to force myself to be happy in myself.

Your friends sound ugly op. I have had more respect for people if they are kind than if they are beautiful.

Sorry, I should add though that I tried softly setting up to friends a while ago, both great friends. The guy is very obese, not hot but fun. The woman, slim, tall but as you say, not objectively pretty, more elegant and willowy, think Trinny type. I found it interesting as my male friend was very disparaging about her looks later, when actually he really was unhealthy looking himself whereas she was just not the usual pretty. He told me hed never date someone like her. Made me think that men genuinely favour the looks, regardless of how they look themselves. Made me look at my male friend quite negatively if im honest.

ok so this obsession with women thinking they have to look good so they can trap and keep a man, if there was a survey done and men were shown photos different types of women so natural woman, women with a little or a tonne of makeup up, women who have fillers and other beauty enhancement surgery, and any other shape and sizes of women and the men were told to be totally honest and select who they would find good looking to them so everyone's partners on here and their exe''s or just men in general are asked

How many would pick would be the fake ones and say they genuinely like that look?

There is lots of 'well men like' in society but if men were asked what would there actual responses be?

and no it is not all about men it just feels that is all women on here seem to be concerned about and are desperate to get and keep and spend heaps of their life thinking about them

It could just be your own perception of what they’re saying but if it’s not, your friends sound like dicks. There’s nothing wrong with wanting to be a little more trendy.

Surround yourself with friends that hype you up.

@Renabrook you said a lot without actually saying anything, really.

There have been multiple studies on what men find attractive. Yes, it’s a study, not set in stone, but it gives an overview.

It’s also very bog standard, expected finding though: clear skin, long hair, good posture, etc. Nothing surprising.

Even the best looking women spend a lot of time and money on maintenance and enhancing themselves. Things such as having a nice hairstyle, spending money on good hair and skin products and wearing good clothes that fit properly will bump up anyone a few notches.

You can also try weightlifting to tone your body, eat healthy for glowing skin and hair. Take collagen powder.

Then there’s the hair extensions, lash extensions, make up, beauty treatments and even Botox or plastic surgery.

Very, very few women are accidentally beautiful. We all have to put effort in and when you get older, everyone gets ugly so it’s fine.

That being said, even the most stunning person can become unattractive through a shit personality.

I have days where I think I’m pretty gross and other days where I think I’m ok. I think all women, to some degree think they are unattractive.

To summarise- there are some things about your physical appearance that you can control and some you can’t. Highlight your attributes and be a nice person and you’ll do ok.

@Riverrunswild83 pretty people without doubt are treated better. I try not to call myself anything that wouldn’t say to a friend be that ugly, thick etc.

you need new friends who celebrate you for being you.

Bottom line yes I am ugly I was bullied because of my appearance throughout school and even my FIL has made comments.

So whilst you can still be great looking at 60+, you are less attractive to men, is that what you mean about the playing field levelling?

These threads always bring out answers from people who are viewing things from the perspective of an idealised world, not the world we actually live in. Yes, there are people who will recognise beauty in someone who is 60+ but the reality is that, to many people (not just men, although more men than women) women of middle age and beyond become invisible. If you've spent your younger years receiving insults from strangers because you are the ugly one, this is an absolute boon.

In terms of levelling the playing field, that's one way in which it happens - to many, we are all invisible.

It's also the case that not all women are 'still great looking at 60+' even if they were attractive in their younger days. Like youthful attractiveness, attractiveness in middle age and beyond is largely a matter of genetics (i.e. luck) - there is only so much that skincare/make up/treatments can do. The proportion of 'great looking women' reduces as we all age. That's the second way in which the playing field is levelled.

Seriously, I love people who are not attractive to look at.
I find them the most easy to be around and the best companians. I don't even see 'ugly', I see interesting and different.
I feel relaxed and like I don't have to look really primed.
Pretty people make me nervous.
They make me not forget to wear make up; I feel less than them yet I know it's not their fault that they were given a beautiful gene.
Truly, I think people who are fatter, or less sporty or less clever or less pretty than the best, offer a comfort factor. They are warm and beautiful to be around because there is no pressure. They often have unusual crafts and hobbies.

Being part of a large family illuminates my opinions on beauty. I value everyone, adore all my cousins, aunts etc. Some are pretty and some are champions and some are CEOs but many more are regular, hard workers, chubby, failures at sport and read non challenging books. They are all of the same value to my family and all nice to hang out with.

But not all women still want to look great at 60+.

It starts much younger than that, how many posters on this forum saying that once they've had a child, that's it, their body is gone forever and it's normal to resign yourself to look overweight.

And that's only the mums.

You never look like a 20 year old in your 60s, you will become invisible to younger people (who wants to be fancied by a 30 yo in your 60s? That's weird)
You will be LESS attractive than a younger woman, but you can still exist. It doesn't come naturally for most women, but being attractive is still a choice.

Because she feels like it? Are you the thread police? Why click on topics that do not interest you and then write rude comments?

As a dc my aunt told my younger dsis that she was very pretty.
She then turned to me and said ‘ you’re not pretty but your attractive and it will last you longer.’
Of course 10 year old me was very upset ( I hid it well) and I never forgot aunt’s remark.
Just as a hurtful remark on weight can trigger anorexia, my aunt triggered a life of me working on my looks.
I’m sure some people think I’m vain, I’m not I just spend my life compensating for not looking pretty.
I have my mum’s hook nose, my dad’s crossover teeth and now my eyes are baggy.

I often think how easier my life would have been with self confidence, my own dm still comments on my big ears, my need to wear glasses. I’m in my 60’s now.
My dsis was always the pretty, blonde dc.

@Riverrunswild83 I’m sorry that through no fault of your own life has dealt you an unfair hand in life. Believe me though that beauty really is skin deep.
I still use make up to go out but I try really hard to be a confident, joyful human that people feel comfortable to be with whilst still maintaining boundaries and expecting respect.

FFS! You clearly have no idea of the reality for people like the OP and myself.

We do get passed over for more conventionally attractive people in all aspects of life. That’s a simple fact. 🤷🏻‍♀️

As you and your friends get older, it becomes a bit less obvious as even the attractive ones get overlooked when someone under 30 turns up. When that happens, sometimes the penny drops with the older friend but rather than stand in solidarity, they usually mourn their loss of youth and attractiveness, quite petulantly. 😂

Im sorry thar's been your experience, ot's certainly not been mine. I know both assholes and fantastic people at all levels of attractiveness. My best friend from childhood is beautiful inside and out, one of the most wonderful people you could meet. The point is to seperate character from looks, not to perform preemptive character assasinations of peoole based on their looks, whatever end of the attractiveness spectrum they lie on.

Anyone who is urging op to get her hair done, get make up, get a makeover are perpetuating the problem because that suggests that she should tackle the problem of society not valuing ugly people, by making herself prettier and more acceptable any way she can, rather than society not placing so much importance on people having to be attractive to be acceptable.

Im overweight, short, don't wear make up, get my hair done very occasionally, i don't wear expensive clothes. I'm just as worthy as a human as the 6ft slim beautiful model next to me. I don't have to put make up on and style my hair to make that truer.

I'm not going to come on here and say no one is ugly... but I don't know anyone I would describe as ugly.

I'm sorry op that you've had crap experiences with people. Those comments can be really hard not to take to heart.

One of the most attractive people I knew was an older male manager I had when I was in my 20s. Not traditionally good looking but was clever and fun, I did have a crush on him. And luckily either he didn't realise or was a better man than some as he was never inappropriate.

I realise there's different standards for women. Every time I put on my make up, or my skin care, or go to the hairdresser to get my roots done, I think about all the money I'm paying compared to my DH.

who are these “friends”?? They sound very strange and mean

I am over 60 and have worked in several countries in numerous jobs and am not sure I have ever met an ugly woman. I've met a few plain women, but not actually ugly. I've met a lot of women who don't take care of themselves, but again, that's not ugly.

OP, I get what you are saying. I was conventionally pretty when young, then put on weight and became invisible overnight. I notice the difference. But there's a lot that can be achieved just with good self care. Healthy weight, toned from workouts is the best start. Clean, well cut, glossy hair in a style that suits your face shape. Good skin care and light, natural make up. Well-shaped brows and nails. Well - cared for teeth, whitened if stained, with any missing or malformed teeth capped. Well-fitting clothes in colours that suit, with a bit of flair to them, whether vintage, classic or high fashion. A spritz of light perfume.

I bet with all these things, no one would call you ugly. I worked with a woman with a wandering eye. One eye would focus on you, the other would roll in any direction. Maybe that is conventionally ugly. But she had an amazing figure, gorgeous hair, dressed well and was really bubbly. She had loads of friends and loads of men fancied her. She just didn't let it bother her at all.

Trinny is objectively pretty though? She’s hardly a good example of a plain but slim woman.

And yeah your male friend sounds truly odious.

I agree OP.

It sounds like you’ve had extremely bad experiences, and I also agree your prettier friends sound bitchy. That’s unfortunate. There are nicer people out there if you hunt for them.

I’m now in my 40s and I still care about my (not great) looks but I’ve mostly given up trying to make myself fit a conventionally attractive look. On the other hand my close friend was probably a 2 on a 1-10 scale and when we were in our late teens and twenties the impact on her self esteem was devastating. She did an amazing job of making the most of her looks - gorgeous hair, slim - but she remained self conscious and shy and therefore had zero luck with dating. It was painful as she had a wonderful warm, witty personality - but no fella took the time of day to befriend her. And she didn’t have the confidence to make the first step. She was single for over 15 years.

It's not about weight, though. If you are genuinely ugly, it is about your face. Being overweight, as long as you are not conspicuously, head-turningly obese actually helps with the 'abuse from strangers' side of things because the kind of men that do this put mildly overweight women into the same bracket as middle-aged women, i.e. invisible. If you have a good figure, they notice that and it's as if you've outraged them by having a good figure but still being totally unfuckable. I discovered this as a yo-yo dieter throughout my 20s and 30s.