To be scared people aren't taking far-right extremists seriously?

[AnxiousApocalypse]

There is so much anti-immigrant sentiment in the UK and the West in general. There are a lot of people that believe if you are a person of colour that has grown up in the UK but have immigrant parents, then you are not British enough- even if you have spent your whole life here and integrated into British society. On Wednesday, three far-right extremists were convicted in Sheffield Crown Court of planning a terrorist attack but there was hardly any coverage. At my workplace, people talk about immigrants coming over on scam care worker visas schemes, bringing their dependants and taking up resources such as school places and NHS appointments when those are already lacking for those born in Britain. I thought that scrapping overseas recruitment for care workers and heightening the qualifications threshold for skilled worker visas by the government was quite severe, but comments on the Daily Mail and Telegraph articles show that this isn't enough for most people. What about all the universities having to make cuts due to losing significant income from the new restrictions on international student visas? Will most people not be happy until the UK has no non-white people at all?

It's not "only" from people speaking [ particular language ] . Please don't try and discredit my argument by trying to reduce it as absurd.

If you lived or worked in this area of London, you would know.

I don't want to be called a whore repeatedly for wearing office clothing!

I really can't understand why this is such a hill people want to die on. I think it's ok for us to live amongst each other, and not feel compelled to verbally harass and label another person who is legally dressed and not harming another.

I'm a bit confused about what you're talking about. You seem to be against immigration because foreign men were sexually harassing you.

Now you're saying that you are harassed by both British and foreign men. In that case the problem is some men, not their nationality.

I completely agree that a lot more needs to be done to keep women safe. I'd like to see on the spot fines, more visible police, better street lighting and women's concerns taken seriously.

not feel compelled to verbally harass and label another person who is legally dressed and not harming another.

I completely agree.

You seem to be proud of being white, rather than British. I'm also proud of my ancestry, not so of my skin colour.

see, there you go - I didn’t say anything about being white. You’re the one going on about ‘unsullied bloodlines’ which again, I haven’t mentioned. I gave the question about Nigerians as an example but I also gave the example of Spanish people - not black last time I looked.

You seem to have a two tier version of what it means to be British 'indigenous' or white and then people of colour.

well obviously as you pointed out, the ‘indigenous’ people are Celts so while we have various influxes of European settlers over hundreds of years, we don’t see people of colour in those groups. I’m not being racist, they are just facts.

People who come to this country and gain citizenship often still think of themselves in relation to to their ancestry and heritage - hence use of the term ‘British of Indian origin’ (this is just an example, I’m sure there are other non brown examples as well but BoIo are one of the biggest groups).

Your method of cutting and pasting and removing context is getting quite confusing so I’m not going to respond to any more giant posts trying to make out that I’m a racist. The good thing is that I know I’m not (despite what you like to imagine in your posts).

This thread highlights how difficult some people want to make any conversation about immigration and nationality - attempting to silence people with constant accusations of racism. This is part of the problem with people getting frustrated and wanting to protest.

@BundleBoogie

see, there you go - I didn’t say anything about being white

You keep talking about skin colour.

. You’re the one going on about ‘unsullied bloodlines’ which again, I haven’t mentioned

You described yourself as indigenous. That means you're directly descended from the ancient Celts with no mixed breeding. Therefore unsullied. Despite thousands of years of people coming to the UK via the Roman empire, via invasion, via immigration - you are indigenous.

. I gave the question about Nigerians as an example but I also gave the example of Spanish people - not black last time I looked.

You didn't mention the Spanish.

well obviously as you pointed out, the ‘indigenous’ people are Celts so while we have various influxes of European settlers over hundreds of years, we don’t see people of colour in those groups. I’m not being racist, they are just facts.

That's not true, see my answer above.

People who come to this country and gain citizenship often still think of themselves in relation to to their ancestry and heritage - hence use of the term ‘British of Indian origin’

I'm not sure what you're trying to do here. Again it seems like you're creating a two tier citizenship. People with British citizenship are British.

Your method of cutting and pasting and removing context is getting quite confusing so I’m not going to respond to any more giant posts trying to make out that I’m a racist.

I'm quoting you, if you're coming across as racist, that's not my responsibility.

This thread highlights how difficult some people want to make any conversation about immigration and nationality - attempting to silence people with constant accusations of racism.

I haven't called you racist. I said you seem very caught up with skin colour. You're 'indigenous' ie white. You haven't answered why it's so important.

@BundleBoogie

"This thread highlights how difficult some people want to make any conversation about immigration and nationality - attempting to silence people with constant accusations of racism. This is part of the problem with people getting frustrated and wanting to protest."

This is a thread about the far right and the debate around immigration.

Suggesting that people are protesting because they feel they can't debate our immigration policies without being told they're racist, ignores the fact that so much of the rhetoric around immigration IS ACTUALLY RACIST!

On Wednesday, three far-right extremists were convicted in Sheffield Crown Court

That sounds to me as if it was taken very seriously.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c9dq18q397yo

The group were also prepared for what they believed was an inevitable race war.

An example of a scam visa would be those granted to fake foreign students to study at bogus colleges over the last 20 years. There have been over 100 000 cases but here are 2:

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2009/may/21/bogus-college-scam

This was a recent case of a fake college in Manchester that was closed down, most of the 5,000 'students' granted student visas were Africans with no right to live or work in the UK:

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/bogus-colleges-manchester-crown-court-16015337?int_source=amp_continue_reading&int_medium=amp&int_campaign=continue_reading_button#amp-readmore-target

How many more are there? How many students have disappeared into the ether before they were caught?

This is the transcript of his speech. It is reasonably dishonest because he didn’t use the politer sounding “is white” for each position in his list - he spat out the word in anger. The visual is as angry as I remember it. He also skips lightly over the fact that both himself and Anas Sarwar are of Pakistani origin - clearly not ‘white’.

Now read his diatribe and replace the word ‘white’ with ‘black’. I’m getting called racist for just wanting to talk about immigration- imagine the reaction if I made a similar speech about how there were too many black people in a particular positive situation?

Maybe it’s not that you can’t spot racism that’s directed at white people - maybe you just think it’s acceptable?

Take Anas Sarwar and I. We are hardly even diverse between us. We are both male, we were both born and raised in Glasgow’s south side, we are both in our mid-30s, we went to the same private school, we are both middle class and our fathers even come from the same region in Pakistan. His father happens to be the governor of the region; my dad did not quite get there.
The Conservatives, Greens and Liberal Democrats have never had a single person of colour in their MSP ranks in 20 years of devolution. I do not say that to point the finger; I say it because we have to make change. They have never had a single non-white MP from Scotland in their history.
To my colleagues in the Government, I say that we know that we are not immune, either. Some people have been surprised or taken aback by my mention on my social media that at 99 per cent of the meetings that I go to, I am the only non-white person in the room.
Why are we so surprised when the most senior positions in Scotland are filled almost exclusively by people who are white? Take my portfolio, for example. The Lord President is white, the Lord Justice Clerk is white, every High Court judge is white, the Lord Advocate is white, the Solicitor General is white, the chief constable is white, every deputy chief constable is white, every assistant chief constable is white, the head of the Law Society is white, the head of the Faculty of Advocates is white and every prison governor is white.
That is not the case only in justice. The chief medical officer is white, the chief nursing officer is white, the chief veterinary officer is white, the chief social work adviser is white and almost every trade union in the country is headed by white people. In the Scottish Government, every director general is white. Every chair of every public body is white. That is not good enough.

This is a great balanced post but I am definitely still concerned about the rise of the right.

Very concerned.

You don’t know that I mean by “people from other countries”?? Ok. You know how odd that sounds?

i can’t really explain the point any more simply. I am wondering if pp holds people in other countries to the same rules and standards as he or she holds British people? It doesn’t seem like it to me.

And your side note is irrelevant because you clearly haven’t understood my point.

I know - some of the comments on this platform are out there aren’t they?

It helps if you read the full quote history. This is what I was responding to. Apparently some people think that talk of being ‘indigenous’ or ‘white’ is far right ideology.

MiloMinderbinder925 · Yesterday 21:34
There's a lot of talk about being 'indigenous' or white. It's all far right ideology.

It is as you very clearly said. For you 'indigenous' Britons are white.

Excellent post👌

When you allow in men from countries with practically zero human rights for women and no regard for their safety, these men are likely to cause problems for women here.

If you read multiple newspaper reports, a popular defence among rapists who have arrived in this country relatively recently is that they didn’t realise rape was a crime.

In my mind, one rape or murder by an immigrant is one too many. As you point out we have enough home grown misogyny without importing a turbo charged version from countries that treat women worse than dogs.

The government have been reluctant to publish their data on crime rates among recent immigrants. There’s a clear reason for that. If the crime rates were low or unexceptional they would be published in a heartbeat to dispel all your projected ‘far right’ objections. The reluctance means they are not low or even unexceptional.

Well, apparently about 70% of sexual assaults in London are now committed by foreign nationals. They're also 3x more likely to be arrested for sex crimes and twice as likely to be arrested in general.

In total they account for 26% of sex crimes in the UK despite making up only 9% of the population. The figures also show nearly 165 arrests per 100,000 of the migrant population, compared to 48 per 100,000 for Britons.

Not a good look tbh!

If you read multiple newspaper reports, a popular defence among rapists who have arrived in this country relatively recently is that they didn’t realise rape was a crime.

1. Is it really a “popular” defence?
2. Isn’t more a case of them pulling a fast one given rape is generally illegal everywhere.

Do you have an actual source for that claim that 70% of sexual assaults in London are committed by foreign nationals?

In fact do you have a source for any of that? The only recent story I have read was by the Telegraph and they deliberately used incorrect figures? When using the correct ones their criminality rate was in line with their appearance in their population. It’s the 9% you have quoted which is incorrect.

Foreign nationals are 16% of the population. The 9% is from the 2004 census.

Plenty of Spaniards are also black. You seem to be conflating race, nationality and ethnicity.

1. yes. A defence increasingly utilised by men who are recently resident in this country.
2. that makes no sense. A judge would never go for that from a white British man. Non white men seem able to successfully argue that they don’t know the laws of our land and in some cases it helps their case.

Yeees. Why, what colour do you think they are?

You are the one who introduced the word indigenous to this thread and somehow keep repeating the claim that saying we are white is ‘far right’. I don’t understand why?

It might help if I understood what you mean by ‘far right’? Can you explain your understanding of the term?

I agree with most definitions of far right as given in history books and dictionaries.

I don't think British people are any particular colour because as explained twice, we have been colonised, invaded and had immigration for a long time.

It's also not something that's important to me as I explained a few times. To be British, you need British citizenship. The colour of your skin doesn't matter.

You are the one who introduced the word indigenous to this thread and somehow keep repeating the claim that saying we are white is ‘far right’. I don’t understand why?

You seem very confused because you haven't read the thread. The thread is about the far right which is why the far right is being discussed.

I said that people are talking a lot about being 'indigenous' which is another way of saying white. It's part of far white ideology because far right ideology talks about white supremacy as important and belief in an ethnostate.

You kept insisting that some countries have an ethnostate and that there's nothing wrong with that. You mentioned Nigerians being Nigerians because they're black. Then you spoke of Britons being British because they're white.

When I said that you're British if you have British citizenship, you spoke of a two tier citizenship where people of colour (Indians) see themselves as both Indian and British but not fully British.

Would you consider belief in an ethnostate and 'authentic' British being white as far right?

I'm not sure the 'incorrect statistics' argument works here. When they're committing 70% of sex crimes in London and 26% nationally, they're still perpetrating these crimes in these numbers whether they make up 9% or 16% of the population.

If 26% of sex crimes are committed by foreign nationals the 26% stays the same no matter how many of the said nationals there are here.

Police made more than 9,000 arrests of foreign nationals for sexual offences in the first ten months of last year in 41 of the 43 forces in England and Wales, more than 26 per cent of the total estimated 35,000 sexual offences arrests.

The Centre of Migration Control think tank last week published data showing foreign nationals were 3.5 times as likely to be arrested for sex offences as British suspects. The think tank's freedom of information requests - answered by 22 forces - allows the figures to be broken down for child sex offences by region. At least 1,860 foreign nationals were arrested last year over sexual offences against children in England and Wales.

Campaigner Dame Jasvinder Sanghera - who has received death threats for speaking out - said she had 'no doubt' grooming gangs were continuing brazenly to target youngsters. Jasvinder, who was shunned by her family aged 16 after refusing an arranged marriage to an older man, founded Karma Nirvana, a charity helping victims of honour-based abuse in the UK, in 1993.

She told the Mail on Sunday: 'I've lost count of the number of times victims have come to me saying they are not being taken seriously because people are worried about community tensions. People are worried about being called a racist. People are worried about treading on cultural ties and and then on the back of that, people have not acted in response to these victims.'

'I've spent nearly 30 years trying to get agencies to recognize that this issue has to be dealt with as a safeguarding issue and not an issue you can just tiptoe around because it's from a different culture.'

'Cultural acceptance does not mean accepting the unacceptable'.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14274951/amp/foreign-nationals-arrested-sexual-offences-children-England-Wales.html

You kept insisting that some countries have an ethnostate and that there's nothing wrong with that. You mentioned Nigerians being Nigerians because they're black. Then you spoke of Britons being British because they're white.

Do show me where I have used the word ‘ethnostate’. I think you’ll find I haven’t. If you’ve got yourself hung up on my use of the word ‘require’ in relation to Nigerians being black, that hardly constitutes me ‘keep insisting that some countries have an ethnostate’, although maybe they have? Who knows? I was using that as a theoretical example - not some ‘right wing’ ideal you are so desperate to attribute to anyone with views differing from your own.

Have you asked a Nigerian if you can expect to be regarded as fully Nigerian as a white person? When did I say that Britons are British BECAUSE we are white? That doesn’t make sense - there are lots of other white people from other countries who are not British.

You described yourself as indigenous. That means you're directly descended from the ancient Celts with no mixed breeding. Therefore unsullied. Despite thousands of years of people coming to the UK via the Roman empire, via invasion, via immigration - you are indigenous.

In the same way that you dishonestly pretend that I claimed to be indigenous and used that as a springboard for your repeated comments about ‘unsullied bloodlines’. This is what I actually said:

In direct answer to your question, although I haven’t claimed to be ‘indigenous’, I probably am quite indigenous, having strong Celtic family lines that have been traced back 100s of years

I will not engage further with your dishonest misrepresentations of my comments. It is not conducive to a productive conversation.