Am I as a grandmother being unreasonable?

[TheOpenBee]

Please excuse this wall of text...

I'm looking for some advice on what to do with our current situation.
I have a daughter 27 who has a 3 year old son. My daughter works 3 days a week and up until December last year we looked after our grandson while she was at work on those 3 days.

Last December she split up with my grandsons father and he moved away. My daughter started bringing our grandson to us every single day, on days she wasn't working she'd be dropping him off and going home to bed saying she was tired because my grandson wasn't sleeping well without his father's presence and she'd been having a hard time at work. We accepted this for a few weeks but then it started to get silly.

My daughter works a 15 minute drive from our home. She'd finish work at 5 and instead of coming to pick her son up at 5.30 ish like normal she'd start turning up at 7 with no explanation as to where she had been.

He'd be served his evening meal at 5.30 and start getting excited that mummy would be back soon then he'd wait and wait for her as she gets later and later arriving. It breaks my heart when he keeps asking for reassurance that mummy is coming back.

When she is at our home with her son she sits on her phone ignoring him. He has to ask her for affection or to be involved in something he is doing. One example was last weekend my daughter and grandson were at my home, my grandson got a sandpit for his birthday and was stupidly excited when we said he could play in it. He went around everyone in the room asking them to put their shoes on and come and see his new toy. His mum for a change actually did what he asked and came outside, you could see his eyes light up when he saw her coming outside. She stayed maybe 5 minutes then decided whoever she was texting on the phone was more interesting and went back inside. My grandson looked at his grandad and said "she's not coming back is she" got really sad, asked for a hug then decided he didn't want to play with sand anymore and asked to go back inside himself.

My grandson is without doubt missing his mummy, he sees her for less than an hour in the morning and as his bedtime is technically 7 a lot of nights she takes him straight home to bed.

On the rare occasion she's paying him enough attention and actually praises him he gets emotional and immediately starts to cry. He craves her attention so much that when he gets it he doesn't know what to do.

Now we move on to a few weeks later and grandson has still been at our house all-day 6 days a week (his daddy has him on a Sunday) the only difference is my daughter on the 3 days she's not been working has been coming up to our house with him. She will sit on her phone texting her new boyfriend all day while we look after the child.

We talked to my daughter mentioning that we were unhappy with the current situation and our grandson can't be with us all the time and needed some 'just mummy' time. She got really defensive saying we just didn't want her to have a life and stormed out.
The next week she actually spent a whole day with him taking him to a local activity centre and baking cupcakes with him which he loves to do. My grandson came to us the next day happy and super chatty telling us all the things he'd done with mummy. We hoped that things were getting a tiny bit better and the next week she spent a whole day with him too.

Now to today my daughter turned up at our house saying my grandson was obviously too much of a problem for us to keep looking after so she'd enrolled him in a local nursery from 8am to 6pm all 5 days a week.
This is not what we wanted at all. While we agree nursery would be a good thing for him 50 hours a week seems like torture for a child who is already worried that he's been left when his parents are out of sight for only a short while. We were and still are always happy to have him while my daughter works. He's going from missing his daddy, to missing his mummy (even when she is physically with him) to having his grandparents taken away too and it's breaking my heart. All we wanted was for her to spend some time with him and instead she's decided to send him away from all of us.

What can I do? Am I being unreasonable asking her to actually participate in her child's life more?

Universal credit will pay a big chunk of it. Although £2000 a month sounds a lot. Out local nursery is £285 a week full time

I think she sounds like she's really struggling after the split with her partner. You sound wonderful and it's such a shame that the situation has escalated. Certainly see if you can reset to your three days a week. If not then even though he's booked into Nursery five days a week he doesn't have to be there 8am to 6pm. Yes she will have to pay for full days but you could pick up at any time, maybe have him two afternoons a week, some sort of flexible arrangement. You can definitely pick him up at 4pm for instance so it's not such a long day.

This is incredibly sad. I’m guessing she’s desperate to have some ‘her’ time, and is excited about being in a new relationship. But ultimately her son must come first and she’s being selfish. The poor boy. He’s so lucky to have amazing grandparents. You need to have a frank conversation with her. Don’t sugarcoat anything. She needs to step up and be a better parent. I think the solution is about balance. Nursery is a great place for kids, they love the activities and social side. But not 5 days a week. Maybe 2 days there, 1 with you, and she steps up and makes a proper effort the rest of the time.

Your daughter sounds neglectful, manipulative and abusive OP. At no point has she demonstrated any real concern or care for her son's wellbeing. And now she is punishing you.

What was she like before she had a child? Do you think this could be caused by depression, at least in part?

This is very tricky but I would imagine that full-time nursery is expensive and she won't want to pay all of that money, when you were providing all that childcare for free. I suspect that she is trying to manipulate you into apologising/backing down so that she isn't criticised in future. Or, perhaps, she just doesn't value the bond that you have with your grandson.

Try and talk to her again, but don't apologise for what you said. It needed to be said and she clearly needs some help and support in meeting her son's needs. Perhaps a third party might be useful in these circumstances and could provide her with a bit of a "wake up call". You might be too close to home in that respect. But the message needs to sink in, doesn't it? Otherwise your poor grandson will spend his childhood in a cold, neglectful environment and that just isn't good for anyone.

I hope it all works out for you.

You may have to consider that your grandson is better off in nursery than he is with his checked out mother. To accept she is wholly inadequate, and has no inclination to change. Acceptance is key now, no matter how disappointing. Mitigate what you can.

What a sad situation op and heartbreaking all around

She's obviously devastated by the split and suddenly being abandoned the child's father. Have you ever met him does he still see his son? Do you have any contact details for him to see if he will see his son.

It's unfortunate that the communication between yourself and your daughter came out that you don't care about her and what she's going through.

I wonder if there is a possibility when things have calmed down to show her how much you support her and understand how she must feel and that your tyere for her and grandchild and want to support them both through it?

How was she before the spilt? Was she more involved and it’s a big change personality for her? She could be depressed or very sad at the break down of her relationship. Her partner possibly pushed her away and she very sensitive do deemed OPs comments the same hence the over reaction.

What if she always wanted another child or now regrets having ops grandson which is very complicated feelings too.

Op I can’t help but think there’s something deeper going on so PP saying she need to grow up and get on with it are making me anxious as that doesn’t solve the issue

Just to add her partner has left her so I'm sure her self esteem and everything is on the floor I'm not sure reading her the riot act is helpful at all.

She needs kindness and support and to help build up her emotional bank again.

YANBU but I don’t know what the solution is sadly. Poor little boy.

Is there a chance she is depressed? Although the new boyfriend is a red flag that maybe she is just selfish… sorry to say it. You sound like lovely grandparents.

My heart actually started hurting reading your post. I don’t know your daughter but you do so you can find the levers you’ll need to get him back to yours 3 days per week. For now, overlook the two full days at nursery….framing is everything- don’t criticise her. You could try, oh sorry love I didn’t mean we can’t have him for 3 days but that’s a good idea to enrol him in nursery for a couple days to give you some space to heal from the break up (I know I know but keep focussed on what you need for the little boy out of this). You want to be able to save your money so you don’t need to replace those days. We’ll still have him and then go and collect him and keep on going.when you do this make it about helping her and not about what’s best for the boy because like it or not for whatever reason she can’t see past the end of her nose to what’s best for him…

I'm sorry your daughter is emotionally distant with her son but also - many children attend full time nursery and are not 'tortured'' by it

I think you to have a talk with her which focuses on your concerns for her rather than your grandson, so that she'll engage with you, as she does sound very selfish.

You could tell how it is so unfair that she's s single mum, how awful that she has to keep in touch with her ex because of her son, how it's been a financial struggle, and you want to help her by looking after your grandson a few days a week, as you miss seeing her at drop-off and pick up, you don't want her to have to pay for time over the 30 hours etc.

If you make it all about her, she might engage, once you're back in her and your grandson's life, you can encourage their bond - again by making it about her, that he prefers to play football with her and granddad rather than grandad and grandma, he's always telling you how beautiful she is, whatever will work for her.

He is so lucky that he has you, I hope she realises that you can make her life easier and lets you back in.

100% this!
@TheOpenBee You sound like an amazing grandparent and YANBU.

Your daughter sounds like she’s having a tough time. She’s young, life hasn’t turned out the way she wanted it to and she’s coming to terms with that. Being a single parent with a child is hard and she’s now got this new partner who she’s clearly quite taken with. None of this is an excuse for some pretty piss poor behaviour but it’s an explanation. No one is perfect, we’ve all made mistakes, we’ve all gone through periods where we could have parented better.

It’a hard for you OP as you have a responsibility to both your daughter and DGC. She sounds like she’s throwing her toys out of the pram enrolling him in nursery 5 days a week but my main concern as is yours by the sounds of you OP is her relationship with her son. Many many people have their kids in nursery 5 days a week - yes it’s a long day, they soon settle and get used to it and learn to love the childcare providers. However if she’s just doing this so that she can have minimal time with him and pick him up and put him straight to bed as you say this is concerning. It is sad / concerning I think that if she only works 3 days a week she doesn’t want to spend at least one of her non working days with him but that might be more of a reflection of her mental space right now.

I would have a conversation with her with following points

• you love and care for her and DGC deeply
• you’re worried about the change you’ve seen in her - possible low mood ? And how this could affect her relationship with her son
• you’re more than happy to have your dgc on those 3 days and especially as he knows you you think it would be of detriment to him to take this away whilst getting used to Mum and Dad living in different places etc but stay boundaried that she is to collect when she finishes work. If it would work better for her you could consider a hybrid of 1-2 days nursery, 1-2 days with grandparents and 1-2 days with mum per week?

I’m giving her the benefit of the doubt because she’s going through a lot but ultimately she is weaponising her child here. If you don’t march to the beat of her drum then she takes away your time with GC which is so unfair on both of you and not putting her child’s needs first. I think she needs to hear this. Also it’s never nice hearing criticism especially when it’s true however you are not the one who ended a relationship with her. You spend more time with her child than her ex does. You clearly care for them both and have been a constant in her life during a turbulent time. Her son’s welfare should be at the core of every decision she makes regarding his childcare. I would remind her of this too.

Good luck

How awful 😔 she doesn't sound like a fit parent tbh. I'd tell her you're happy to keep having him while she works if she wanted to save some money putting him in nursery the other two days a week.

If she still wants him in nursery, she'll have to pick him up by 6pm so I'd wait and see how that pans out.

@saltinesandcoffeecups this is MN and you can swear, so you can call her what you like. Mumsnet has guidelines and re swearing they will delete "obscenity, racist, ageist, disablist, homophobic or transphobic language, and wording that is truly grim".

I agree with everyone else OP that she is unlikely to be able to afford nursery fees unless she is in receipt of UC. But let's call it for what it is, emotional blackmail. To use a child as a pawn like this is disgusting behaviour. She should be incredibly grateful for all the support you have provided so far.

If she wasn't like this before I would say she is depressed/struggling to adjust. I ended up off sick with stress for a couple of months when I split up with my ex busband it's horrific.

The endless sleeping and zoning out are common signs.

And not surprising if her child's father has upped left and moved away (which seems to have elicited far less negative judgement than her doing a couple of extra nursery days so she can have some time to herself).

If she is struggling with her mental health to the point where she is struggling to interact with him, needing to sleep all the time etc then putting him in nursery on her days off is sensible. And no full time nursery is not 'torture' FFS.

There is a huge amount of judgement coming through from your post a out at your daughter and none for the ex that has chosen to move away.

Give her a bloody chance and stop being so judgemental.

It sounds like she is depressed. Her ex has moved away leaving her to care for their son. Once a week isn’t much parenting on his part. But she is relying on you way too much. The new bf sounds like a distraction hence her picking up late and always being on her phone. Time for an honest conversation. You need to put boundaries in place but I think I would start by asking if she is ok.

What are you going to tell SS she's putting him in nursery? She doesn't play with him as much as ideal?

If she wanted to some time to herself she could discuss it with you and get your help for her son to perhaps see more of his dad. She's prioritising her new relationship to the detriment of her child. Poor kid. Yet so many women do this.

I'd have a chat with her and centre that on the effect of taking him away from everyone he knows and loves may have. There's the potential he'll develop attachment disorder which will cause him lasting harm. The crux of this is that you don't become a parent to pass your child to someone else all the time, you become a family with that child.

It is a really sad read. My dd has been single parent to dgs since birth. She had a rough time a few months back, her health condition flared and her job was really stressful. I could see that when she came with dgs she just wanted to sit on her phone I think as a distraction for how she was feeling.
I felt the best thing to do was to nurture her so she felt better able to nurture dgs. I had dgs more, I fed them both, I encouraged her to rest more and spent time with her when dgs was in school building her up. Once she appeared to be doing better I drew her in to activities I'd be doing with dgs and it helped.
I organised family games night so they both come here after school I feed them and we play board games. Dgs loves it he talks about it all week and dd loves to see him happy, the phone is put away and dd is back to being fully in tune with dgs.
I'm still having dgs a little extra as I think she needs a break and I'm still nurturing dd a little too but she is 100% back to being dgs lovely mum with just a little bit of help from me.
OP it sounds like your dd needs a bit of nurturing too I'd try kindness, she likely knows she isn't doing great and your pointing it out has probably compounded how bad she feels about this. I'd try talking, starting from a place that you are worried about her first and ask what she needs to help her I wouldn't mention dgs needs at all initially.

It’s been proven that lack of engagement from the parents (when choosing to look at tech instead etc) causes social and emotional problems in the child. Bless him, he’s already “lost” one parent’s day-to-day engagement and now the other doesn’t want to know. YANBU. It seems as though your DD may need some therapy to come to terms with the split/being a single parent. To me, it reads as almost desperation to replace grandson’s father. Separately, I would try to minimise DGS noticing these things by keeping him engaged and busy where possible. He sounds like a super clever, switched on young chap, and I do feel ever so sorry for him. Would the paternal grandparents or his father be interested in seeing him more often to take some of the “burden” (I appreciate you don’t see your GC as a burden as such, but I just mean in terms of time commitment) off you?

I read this post and thought yes, she might be depressed.

This. She is old enough to understand the impact shd is having, and possibly punishing her son for the split. But she is not the focus - thd little boy is. Somehow shd must face her behaviour before her wilful and spiteful neglect does longterm harm. As her parent, I think you are responsible for sorting that out, I’m afraid (in my opinion).

Maybe if the father stepped up and did 50-50 then the nights your DGS was there, she can have to "live her life" and be switched on to parenting and more engaged the other. The mother is getting serious shade and the father is escaping without blame.

It's quite clear she needs to engage more. That poor child.

Is she funding that herself out of interest or is this a government thing? Reason I ask is that sounds bloody expensive and my thoughts are she will pull him out.

I think she’s having a massive adult tantrum. She thought having a baby would be cute, the reality is that it’s bloody hard work and of course now she wants to see a new man and date, the child is getting in the way. You are caught between a rock and a hard place as really she’s blackmailing you. She wants you to commit to caring for your grandchild without moaning. It’s very immature and is definitely not centring her child. What’s the father like? DP you have a good relationship with him or his parents?