Am I as a grandmother being unreasonable?

[TheOpenBee]

Please excuse this wall of text...

I'm looking for some advice on what to do with our current situation.
I have a daughter 27 who has a 3 year old son. My daughter works 3 days a week and up until December last year we looked after our grandson while she was at work on those 3 days.

Last December she split up with my grandsons father and he moved away. My daughter started bringing our grandson to us every single day, on days she wasn't working she'd be dropping him off and going home to bed saying she was tired because my grandson wasn't sleeping well without his father's presence and she'd been having a hard time at work. We accepted this for a few weeks but then it started to get silly.

My daughter works a 15 minute drive from our home. She'd finish work at 5 and instead of coming to pick her son up at 5.30 ish like normal she'd start turning up at 7 with no explanation as to where she had been.

He'd be served his evening meal at 5.30 and start getting excited that mummy would be back soon then he'd wait and wait for her as she gets later and later arriving. It breaks my heart when he keeps asking for reassurance that mummy is coming back.

When she is at our home with her son she sits on her phone ignoring him. He has to ask her for affection or to be involved in something he is doing. One example was last weekend my daughter and grandson were at my home, my grandson got a sandpit for his birthday and was stupidly excited when we said he could play in it. He went around everyone in the room asking them to put their shoes on and come and see his new toy. His mum for a change actually did what he asked and came outside, you could see his eyes light up when he saw her coming outside. She stayed maybe 5 minutes then decided whoever she was texting on the phone was more interesting and went back inside. My grandson looked at his grandad and said "she's not coming back is she" got really sad, asked for a hug then decided he didn't want to play with sand anymore and asked to go back inside himself.

My grandson is without doubt missing his mummy, he sees her for less than an hour in the morning and as his bedtime is technically 7 a lot of nights she takes him straight home to bed.

On the rare occasion she's paying him enough attention and actually praises him he gets emotional and immediately starts to cry. He craves her attention so much that when he gets it he doesn't know what to do.

Now we move on to a few weeks later and grandson has still been at our house all-day 6 days a week (his daddy has him on a Sunday) the only difference is my daughter on the 3 days she's not been working has been coming up to our house with him. She will sit on her phone texting her new boyfriend all day while we look after the child.

We talked to my daughter mentioning that we were unhappy with the current situation and our grandson can't be with us all the time and needed some 'just mummy' time. She got really defensive saying we just didn't want her to have a life and stormed out.
The next week she actually spent a whole day with him taking him to a local activity centre and baking cupcakes with him which he loves to do. My grandson came to us the next day happy and super chatty telling us all the things he'd done with mummy. We hoped that things were getting a tiny bit better and the next week she spent a whole day with him too.

Now to today my daughter turned up at our house saying my grandson was obviously too much of a problem for us to keep looking after so she'd enrolled him in a local nursery from 8am to 6pm all 5 days a week.
This is not what we wanted at all. While we agree nursery would be a good thing for him 50 hours a week seems like torture for a child who is already worried that he's been left when his parents are out of sight for only a short while. We were and still are always happy to have him while my daughter works. He's going from missing his daddy, to missing his mummy (even when she is physically with him) to having his grandparents taken away too and it's breaking my heart. All we wanted was for her to spend some time with him and instead she's decided to send him away from all of us.

What can I do? Am I being unreasonable asking her to actually participate in her child's life more?

Lots of kids are in nursery full time, so my bigger concern is with your daughter, and that she sounds depressed and not coping as it seems like she hasn't always been like this. I think she needs help from the GP.

Your daughter is emotionally neglecting her child, she has totally checked out. Was she always like this? Is she looking after him properly at home? It is devastating witnessing such neglect op. I am so sorry you are going through this. I would be checking that she is actually cooking meals, washing his clothes, has bed sheets etc. This sounds like neglect to me. I hope I am wrong but it may be the tip of the iceberg.

She is ultimately blackmailing you, if you complain about her lack of engagement she will cut him out altogether. I would reiterate that you are happy to look after him 3,days a week, I would not be helping her financially and stand back and see what happens. The cost might change her mind.

It might be the only way she can cope if she is quietly depressed op. Your options also include offering to look after him full time. Allowing her to continue with the nursery and fuss him as much as you can when you see him.

She is doing irreparable harm to him, your love and attention will be mitigating that, he will come to see you as his main care givers soon. Start with a heart to heart about her well being and mental health op.

Maybe see if you can ask her out for a coffee together..if she agrees say you are happy for 2 to 3 days and rest at nursery. You may have to eat humble pie but worth it for DGC sake. She may be still upset from the break up.and finding it hard to cope

He is very very lucky to have you.
i grew up in a similar environment, if it’s any consolation op. As a child I found other people to latch on to, a church amongst other things. Try snd introduce him to a wider community, so he feels well supported by many loving adults and learns to trust them.

Praise him and love him as much as you can. Tell him he is the most interesting little person you have ever met. As he he gets older he can develop sports, friendships and other layers of support and care, he is very young now, but he won’t always be.

He will need therapy at some point to process why his mother didn’t love him enough, and was emotionally unavailable to him throughout his childhood. It’s possible he will come through this will, because he does have so much love and support from you and his grandfather. You are his salvation op. Don’t underestimate the difference you can make.

How can she afford the £2000 a month that will cost?

You sound amazing! It’s not uncommon for a lot of children in the year before reception (if he’s only just 3) to start nursery. She sounds so selfish. I see it all the time at work, parents split from one partner and then quickly get with someone new even if it doesn’t suit their young child.

What was she like before she had him?

He’ll be fine in nursery he is nearly school age anyway. Your DD will soon change her mind and increase contact with you again. Plus when she gets the nursery bill she may well have a change of heart.

I would be positive and praise him about nursery and when you do get to see him make it extra special time.

My DC went to nursery from being babies. All grown up now. Aced school and college. Happy doing what they set out to do in University (doing a professional degree).

As has already been said, you are amazing grandparents and your grandson is so lucky to have you.
The question mark is over your daughter: is she depressed or has she always reacted badly when she doesn’t hear what she wants? That’s not a criticism of you btw, just trying to work out where her behaviour is coming from. If she’s struggling with her mental heath then she needs to seek help; if she’s besotted with her new boyfriend, then she needs reminding that her son needs her.
This is not the time for 5 full days in nursery. Yes, it’s fine in other circumstances, but your grandson is feeling abandoned already, so it’s not the right choice for him at this time imo. Can you speak to your grandson’s father at all? Do the other grandparents get involved much?
I’d say you’re willing to continue as you are and possibly do nursery drop offs pick ups on the other days.
I feel sorry for your grandson but thankfully you’re providing love and stability for him. I think it’s great that he’s communicating how he feels about the situation to you as well.

That poor little boy. Keep advocating for him, because noone else is.

This?

She sounds like shes 17 not 27.
The last thing id be doing is running around after some bloke after splitting from my child's father.
That poor child. 💔

I'm going to give some harsh advice.

Let her.
Because she is doing this to scare you and put you back in your box. If you want her to improve your cant facilitate maintaining the status quo.

Also factually:

1. If she is working 3 days per week she is not going to easily be finding over 1.5k pm for nursery and fund outings with her new shag. (Because 15 free hours and tax free childcare dont sibsidise it all that much)
2. She is not going to be able to waltz into the nursery at 7.30 at night. She will have to pick him up at 6 on the dot latest and he'll get 90 mins plus with her.

Let her do this for a month or 2 and I really think she'll change her tune about it.
Also at 3 he might really enjoy nursery

Don't ask to be added to named trusted people / people who can collect him or she'll dump him there and expect you to collect too because you're desperate.

Is this change recent? Did she cheat on her sons dad?
Its all quite concerning... could the father do a bit more? Maybe a night in the week or sunday/ monday?

She’s bluffing and shows what a poor parent / how immature she is

Oh no, what a situation. What was her relationship with him before the split? If they had a close relationship before I’d think maybe she’s just struggling right now and maybe needs mental health support. As others have said, I think your best bet might be to talk to her in a supportive way and see what is going on. If she’s never been engaged it will be harder but I agree full time nursery sounds like a horrible idea when he’s got the option to continue spending time with you. Your relationship with him is even more important if he’s not feeling connected to his mum.

Agree also with the PP that full time nursery might have just been said to scare/manipulate you. The only people I know with children in full time nursery are dual income full time working professionals and even they complain about how unaffordable it is. It’s incredibly expensive, even with the government funding top ups. It’s unlikely she’ll be able to afford it unless her income from those 3 days/week is very high.

I would be telling her how much you absolutely love him and want him around but that he misses HER. Do you really open up when you talk to her? Only because me and my mum have quite an 'arms length' relationship I do wonder if you've spoken about it really clearly.

Poor little boy.

As someone who has to pay this x2 i agree with this

Also agree with a lot of @Esperanza25 s post re understandibg the underlying problems but not this bit
I’d say you’re willing to continue as you are and possibly do nursery drop offs pick ups on the other days.
As its just enabling her further.

Its a difficult situation with no easy answers

It sounds like she is young and perhaps depressed. Also, how does she intend to pay for nursery fees? That usually costs a fortune and if she works 3 days a week.....doubt that would cover all the fees. Sometimes fees eat up most of one parent's salary if they child is going full time. How would she afford full time nursery, living expenses on a part time job? Something does not add up. I think she is bluffing and trying to make you feel bad.

I would have a serious talk with her and tell her to get her act together for her sons sake. He is only young once. He needs to be put first. And it is her responsibility. If you are happy to help out, then she is lucky, but it should be done on your terms and not full time. As you said, he needs mummy time too.

I would suspect a new man on the scene. I agree with pp, that’s a lot of money for childcare if not needed, so that’s odd or a bluff. Difficult conversation is needed, she’s pulled away anyway so can’t see much more harm, clearly a punishment. Where is the father in this scenario. Why they split might give you a clue

Everyone asking how she can afford it, 3yrs olds get 30hrs funded don’t they now? And if she is a single parent working part time she will qualify for universal credit. Poor child though, sounds like mum has other priorities. I think you need to have an honest conversation with her, she is neglecting her child and it is having a big impact on him. Tell her you’re not judging her, and want to help, as it’s her boy who is suffering right now and putting him in full time nursery when she’s got a couple of days off is a bit mean. Clearly she values time to herself over spending it with her child. I was a single parent for years so I get it’s not easy, but my DC were always my priority.

She needs to grow up. I’m the same age as her and a single parent with 2 under 4 (youngest with me full time). How is she going to afford 50 hours childcare a week? Could she not put him into a 30 hour school nursery? Then at least she would get a little break on her days off.

Ideally the dad should be having your dgs at least Saturday and Sunday but from experience, she can’t force him to.

If he refuses, could you maybe propose you would have dgs overnight maybe once or twice a month on a weekend (given he sleeps through)? Of course, it’s at your discretion. The last time I had a childfree night was when I had my c-section 14 months ago.

It will still be a big chunk and it's term time only...!

I might be wrong but I think UC only help with childcare costs if it’s for during the time you're working. I also heard you now need to work 30 hours or earn a certain amount once the child turns 3. If she doesn’t earn the threshold, they may make her work more if she now has full time childcare.
She should be entitled to the 30 hours though if she puts him in a school nursery.

You need to get blunt and firm with her and if you can you need to explain to the child's father what's going on and get blunt and firm with him too. They made this child and they're neglecting him. The only thing that's going to protect him from significant adverse childhood experiences is for them to stop being so damned selfish and put the time and effort into the child that they decided to create. It's lovely that he has you and you're going to be a massive protective factor but they need to step up as well. Personally I'd encourage nursery for a couple of days a week as well. He's the right age for it to start preparing him for school and they are an impartial professional body who will raise any serious isues with the parents or social services if needed. Please advocate for this poor child. Your dd might be struggling but he's the only one without a voice.

My first thought was maybe depressed, but then you said about a new boyfriend so now I think she's just selfish..

I'd be surprised if she can afford full time nursery, being generous in costs that's at least £50 a day (probably more) so where will she suddenly find £1000+ a month?

It's hard, but you need to let it play out. Best case scenario, she is bluffing, you get time with your grandson again and can set out ground rules. Worst case, he goes to nursery and benefits from socialising with children and getting proactive learning and stimulation. Lots of kids do nursery for those hours, he won't "suffer" but there will be an adjustment for sure.

Meanwhile, mum might eventually come to her senses..

This is really sad to read. You and your husband are doing a wonderful job with your grandson. I had a colleague who was similar to this when she split up with the father of her son. Her concerns were that she had no ‘me time’ and that she was only a mother from now on. Started leaving her child at nursery when she could have picked him up and leaving them at her parents. It took about 9 months to settle into her new life and she started to enjoy being a mum again. Part of it is probably mourning the life she thought she had with the father of son and now coming to terms with being a single mum. But as mums we just have to suck it up, the child needs to come first.

Maybe your could both try and do more weekend activities together, now that the weather is better. Picnics in the park, or even in the garden. Joining Facebook groups which post local activities for little ones - I’ve found so many things in the surrounding areas that I didn’t know where there. I appreciate you’re already doing more than enough with the 3 days a week childcare. But it might help her get into more of a happy routine on the weekends? You could then try and wind it down a bit once she’s back on track? Wishing you all the best, I hope things improve for you all.