Am I as a grandmother being unreasonable?

[TheOpenBee]

Please excuse this wall of text...

I'm looking for some advice on what to do with our current situation.
I have a daughter 27 who has a 3 year old son. My daughter works 3 days a week and up until December last year we looked after our grandson while she was at work on those 3 days.

Last December she split up with my grandsons father and he moved away. My daughter started bringing our grandson to us every single day, on days she wasn't working she'd be dropping him off and going home to bed saying she was tired because my grandson wasn't sleeping well without his father's presence and she'd been having a hard time at work. We accepted this for a few weeks but then it started to get silly.

My daughter works a 15 minute drive from our home. She'd finish work at 5 and instead of coming to pick her son up at 5.30 ish like normal she'd start turning up at 7 with no explanation as to where she had been.

He'd be served his evening meal at 5.30 and start getting excited that mummy would be back soon then he'd wait and wait for her as she gets later and later arriving. It breaks my heart when he keeps asking for reassurance that mummy is coming back.

When she is at our home with her son she sits on her phone ignoring him. He has to ask her for affection or to be involved in something he is doing. One example was last weekend my daughter and grandson were at my home, my grandson got a sandpit for his birthday and was stupidly excited when we said he could play in it. He went around everyone in the room asking them to put their shoes on and come and see his new toy. His mum for a change actually did what he asked and came outside, you could see his eyes light up when he saw her coming outside. She stayed maybe 5 minutes then decided whoever she was texting on the phone was more interesting and went back inside. My grandson looked at his grandad and said "she's not coming back is she" got really sad, asked for a hug then decided he didn't want to play with sand anymore and asked to go back inside himself.

My grandson is without doubt missing his mummy, he sees her for less than an hour in the morning and as his bedtime is technically 7 a lot of nights she takes him straight home to bed.

On the rare occasion she's paying him enough attention and actually praises him he gets emotional and immediately starts to cry. He craves her attention so much that when he gets it he doesn't know what to do.

Now we move on to a few weeks later and grandson has still been at our house all-day 6 days a week (his daddy has him on a Sunday) the only difference is my daughter on the 3 days she's not been working has been coming up to our house with him. She will sit on her phone texting her new boyfriend all day while we look after the child.

We talked to my daughter mentioning that we were unhappy with the current situation and our grandson can't be with us all the time and needed some 'just mummy' time. She got really defensive saying we just didn't want her to have a life and stormed out.
The next week she actually spent a whole day with him taking him to a local activity centre and baking cupcakes with him which he loves to do. My grandson came to us the next day happy and super chatty telling us all the things he'd done with mummy. We hoped that things were getting a tiny bit better and the next week she spent a whole day with him too.

Now to today my daughter turned up at our house saying my grandson was obviously too much of a problem for us to keep looking after so she'd enrolled him in a local nursery from 8am to 6pm all 5 days a week.
This is not what we wanted at all. While we agree nursery would be a good thing for him 50 hours a week seems like torture for a child who is already worried that he's been left when his parents are out of sight for only a short while. We were and still are always happy to have him while my daughter works. He's going from missing his daddy, to missing his mummy (even when she is physically with him) to having his grandparents taken away too and it's breaking my heart. All we wanted was for her to spend some time with him and instead she's decided to send him away from all of us.

What can I do? Am I being unreasonable asking her to actually participate in her child's life more?

What an awful situation all round. Sad for everyone.

One thing missing from this post is blame towards the dad too. It’s incredibly hard to find your feet again when you become a single parent.

That would be my immediate instinct if health permitted but 6 days a week is a bit much and a huge commitment for the grandparents and they will be under the thumb of their daughter who could withdraw contact at any time If they don't do as she pleases.

If the poor little boy is sent off to nursery instead he will end up pining for the grandparents as well as his Mum and Dad. They seem to be the only reliable consistent people in his life at the moment so they have a hard decision to make.

I am sorry to be brutal (& I am a grandparent) but I think your daughter is going to have to be written off as any sort of mother to your DGS.

So, either you have to bring him up as if he were your own child or get Social Services involved.

Sorry, but that is how I see it.

you weren’t childcare you were an opportunity for your DD to check out of parenting her child. She’s using the threat of nursery as a weapon so you STFU thus manipulating you into not challenging her piss poor parenting. I doubt she’s serious because she doesn’t sound the type who would cope with the inconvenience and costs.

It’s time to have an honest chat with your daughter. Tell her you love and will continue to support her but supporting her, doesn’t include standing by and watching her ignore her child and being manipulated by her threats. Young children demand a lot of time and becoming a single parent is tough but it is what it is.

That was a very sad read indeed. That poor little boy. You sound like a wonderful grandma btw, at least he has you.
How was your daughter as a mum before she split with the dad? Maybe she is extremely depressed?
You're not being unreasonable. I think a heart to heart, saying exactly what you have said here is needed. She won't like it, but needs to hear it.

YANBU about not wanting to do 6 days childcare per week. YABU describing nursery as torture or criticising her for finding childcare when you have made it clear that you don’t want to do it.

It doesn’t come across like you like your daughter very much. It’s obvious she’s struggling and needs love and kindness rather than judgement.

Were you ever a single parent to a toddler having to balance full time work and bringing up a child, being the breadwinner and keeping a roof over your head? It sounds like you don’t understand how hard things are for her. Start by nurturing your own daughter, offer kindness and support, so she has something to offer her child.

I think in this position I would offer to take the child permanently rather than allow this - but I do realise how hard that is.

It sounds like your daughter is having a breakdown of some sort - if she is your child and you raised her I presume somewhere in there she is a kind parent - perhaps she couldn't cope and was struggling to connect - post natal depression?

I am going to go against the tide here.
I think your daughter has been struggling with rhe break up and facing life as a single mum, shes come to rely on you and your husband as surrogate parents, subconciously or conciously she is letting you do as much as possible because she sees you doing it with ease, theres two of you and shes tired.
I think nursery is a good idea, plenty of kids go to full time nursery.
Becuase she will learn to parent without your support. She will not be able to think, the child is well loved at grandparents and I am redundant here. She will have to step up.
I think its probably time she stands on her own feet, sorts her childcare out herself and makes her own life with her son with you as grandparents in a grandparent role.

I'm sorry, she has a child - she doesn't get the luxury of her precious feelings being coddled any more. She needs to grow up and parent her child, not act like a spoilt madam and threaten to put him in DC because OP tried to put some boundaries in place.

Reading your post I do feel very sad for the little boy but I also have to remember that your daughter might write a different angle - that when she comes to collect after a day at work - she gets nagged and judged for being on her phone. Now - I fully agree the staring at phones while caring for young children is a sickness of our society - but shame and judgement can be corrosive.

It's also true lots of kids go to full time nursery and are absolutely fine with it - especially by his age.

I think you may need a real heart to heart chat with your own daughter - perhaps you need to come towards her a little and apologise for some of the jdugement..?

This doesn’t meet the threshold for neglect so there’s no point in reporting it

yes, you’re a better person to look after him but that’s not going to happen

your daughter is selfish and clearly just wants to have fun with the boyfriend

all you can hope for is she can’t afford nursery but I don’t think you should be begging or talking to her, she’s just trying to manipulate you

she will eventually allow you to see him again out of term time or at weekends when she wants to be with the boyfriend

the further you step back and pretend you don’t judge what she’s doing the quicker she will start to use you again

This isnt a fair summary.

criticising her for finding childcare when you have made it clear that you don’t want to do it.

They dont think its in their GCs best interest to facilitate her emotional neglect of her child.

They were providing an exceptionally generous 3 days per week. So she has ZERO childcare costs, ZERO need to scramble for care if her child is sick and ZERO concerns about who she is leaving them with.
This wasn't enough for her so now she is trying to scare them into capitulating to her unreasonable demands

Agree she might be struggling but she's making poor choices and has a responsibility to her son which she is shirking

Edit dont know why zero is capitalised.
Also agree she is struggling and I would be having a conversation about that but support and enable mental are different. you cant just opt out of parenting.

Poor child at the middle of all this. It sounds like you are doing a great job. Shame on both his parents. Why can’t they have him half the week each and that might help? It seems unfair that your DD gets 6 days and dad just one. Also - a new boyfriend so quickly? Does he know about her son? Another massive red flag there! As a PP said, take him in yourself or SS. It’s clear he’s unwanted by his parents. So very sad.

For those suggesting depression, she seems to have the energy and wherewithal to pour into a relationship with a new man...just nothing for her little boy.
It's noticeable that she has already thrown the 'you don't want me to have a life' speech at the GP (is she 13?), basically she is doing what many men do and moving on from her old life including ditching any family baggage. It's rare for mums to do this but not unheard of.
IMHO she needs to grow up rapidly and parent her son instead of chasing his father's replacement.

I don’t understand how she’s able to afford nursery full time whilst working part time, even with funded hours… maybe once the nursery bills come in she might change her mind. She’s checked out of parenting, spending all her time on tinder/finding a new bf and clearly very depressed. There will be a new man on the scene in the next few months, I almost guarantee it as I’ve seen this very scenario before.
Can’t you ask her to put him in nursery two days and you have him three days? Some nursery might be good for him (at his age it’s more like pre-school) but he definitely needs a stable relationship in his life at this difficult time.

Your daughter is probably depressed from the situation

talk to her

your grandson needs you more than ever.
dont let him go to nursery 50 hours.
he needs his mum and you all the most.

i would try and find out what is going on for granddaughter
i hope she comes out of this and really sees how it is affecting her son.

so sorry for her little boy

Your Daughter is a piece of work. Whatever influence you can wield to get back in his life, do it and give him all the love you can.

The dad gets him for one day a week?! No, this isn’t fair and this is definitely part of the problem. Your daughter is probably totally overwhelmed with 6 solo bedtimes, all night waking (does the dad have his son overnight at all?). You’re putting focus on what your daughter isn’t doing but there’s another parent in the picture and they’re in no way pulling their weight

Her child, her decision. Nursery isn’t torture or a punishment for grandparents, it’s childcare for working parents.

Sorry but I would let her get on with things. Say you are sorry she doesn't want you to have him the 3 days anymore but you understand that she is choosing what she thinks is best. This might surprise her as she is using the child as a weapon.
As others have said although she will get some funding, nursery has a lot of hidden costs and I don't know when she suddenly expects a place to be available. Childcare can actually be very good for some children (possibly your DGS) as he will be given lots of opportunities at nursery whereas his mum often checks out. She will also not be able to turn up late and will have to step up. Lots of children go to nursery full time as parents are working, so I don't think you can criticise this decision.

That poor child. Can't believe people are defending her.

The breakdown of the relationship was no doubt sad and perhaps she is depressed.

Sorry, but that’s no excuse for this behaviour. From the tone of your post I doubt you berated her and if anything left it too long to say something.

Having read the Anxious Generation and other things on this subject, parents being on their phone and not properly interacting with their child needs calling out for what it is - poor parenting.

Are any of us perfect - of course not. It’s what you try to do every day that counts. This is not even trying. I look forward to seeing all the posts of people tying themselves in knots with excuses of how hard her life is and how she shouldn’t be accountable for her actions.

Unfortunately she does have a lot of power here and she's shown you that if you protest she will reduce your influence in the situation.

I'm.afraud she's a really bad mum heading rapidly towards having a broken and difficult tween/teenager who rejects her in the same way she is rejecting him. No doubt if she were posting on here she would make it sound better but that's the reality.

Where is his dad? Is there any kind of contact set up?

Would you consider essentially having him full time? I think that is what she is trying to achieve. She probably meets the threshold for 'good enough' parenting so the only way to stay in his life is to dance to her tune.

There's a tiny child in this situation. They not only deserve love and kindness they need it and they didn't chose any of this. This child absolutely takes priority. Being emotionally manipulative and gaslighting the only person who seems to give a shit about this poor kid is seriously unhelpful. The child's parents need to step up even if that's in the form of admitting that they need help and speaking to their doctor/social services. Your needs come second as soon as you become a parent. Nobody should choose to make a child without realising that

Your daughter is behaving like a child herself.

It’s sad that her relationship has broken down, that the Dad has limited contact and all the rest that goes with a failed relationship.

However, she needs to grow up, be a parent and understand that life isn’t fair and in most cases, it is usually the mum who is left doing all or most of the work while the Dad goes off and has a nice time.

As shitty as that is, she needs to step up, parent and stop using her child as a weapon to get her own way - which is reverting back to being young, free and single with no responsibilities.

I feel for you and your husband. You sound like kind and supportive parents.