Am I as a grandmother being unreasonable?

[TheOpenBee]

Please excuse this wall of text...

I'm looking for some advice on what to do with our current situation.
I have a daughter 27 who has a 3 year old son. My daughter works 3 days a week and up until December last year we looked after our grandson while she was at work on those 3 days.

Last December she split up with my grandsons father and he moved away. My daughter started bringing our grandson to us every single day, on days she wasn't working she'd be dropping him off and going home to bed saying she was tired because my grandson wasn't sleeping well without his father's presence and she'd been having a hard time at work. We accepted this for a few weeks but then it started to get silly.

My daughter works a 15 minute drive from our home. She'd finish work at 5 and instead of coming to pick her son up at 5.30 ish like normal she'd start turning up at 7 with no explanation as to where she had been.

He'd be served his evening meal at 5.30 and start getting excited that mummy would be back soon then he'd wait and wait for her as she gets later and later arriving. It breaks my heart when he keeps asking for reassurance that mummy is coming back.

When she is at our home with her son she sits on her phone ignoring him. He has to ask her for affection or to be involved in something he is doing. One example was last weekend my daughter and grandson were at my home, my grandson got a sandpit for his birthday and was stupidly excited when we said he could play in it. He went around everyone in the room asking them to put their shoes on and come and see his new toy. His mum for a change actually did what he asked and came outside, you could see his eyes light up when he saw her coming outside. She stayed maybe 5 minutes then decided whoever she was texting on the phone was more interesting and went back inside. My grandson looked at his grandad and said "she's not coming back is she" got really sad, asked for a hug then decided he didn't want to play with sand anymore and asked to go back inside himself.

My grandson is without doubt missing his mummy, he sees her for less than an hour in the morning and as his bedtime is technically 7 a lot of nights she takes him straight home to bed.

On the rare occasion she's paying him enough attention and actually praises him he gets emotional and immediately starts to cry. He craves her attention so much that when he gets it he doesn't know what to do.

Now we move on to a few weeks later and grandson has still been at our house all-day 6 days a week (his daddy has him on a Sunday) the only difference is my daughter on the 3 days she's not been working has been coming up to our house with him. She will sit on her phone texting her new boyfriend all day while we look after the child.

We talked to my daughter mentioning that we were unhappy with the current situation and our grandson can't be with us all the time and needed some 'just mummy' time. She got really defensive saying we just didn't want her to have a life and stormed out.
The next week she actually spent a whole day with him taking him to a local activity centre and baking cupcakes with him which he loves to do. My grandson came to us the next day happy and super chatty telling us all the things he'd done with mummy. We hoped that things were getting a tiny bit better and the next week she spent a whole day with him too.

Now to today my daughter turned up at our house saying my grandson was obviously too much of a problem for us to keep looking after so she'd enrolled him in a local nursery from 8am to 6pm all 5 days a week.
This is not what we wanted at all. While we agree nursery would be a good thing for him 50 hours a week seems like torture for a child who is already worried that he's been left when his parents are out of sight for only a short while. We were and still are always happy to have him while my daughter works. He's going from missing his daddy, to missing his mummy (even when she is physically with him) to having his grandparents taken away too and it's breaking my heart. All we wanted was for her to spend some time with him and instead she's decided to send him away from all of us.

What can I do? Am I being unreasonable asking her to actually participate in her child's life more?

I can’t see how she can fund 50 hours a week nursery on 3 day wage so suspect it’s all bluster.
Can you message her and say you are very happy to mind him 8.30-5.30 on the 3 days she works but understand it’s her decision.
She sounds very selfish and immature.

I agree, was thinking this also. My own mother was raised by her lovely Grandparents as her narcissistic parents had other priorities🙄 Stability and love is what this darling boy needs. If she can't give it to him, then other arrangements need to be made.

Put this under her nose and get her to read what you have written. She's peed off anyway, maybe time for a few home truths.

I’d be surprised if she can afford FT nursery fees on a 3 day a week job. I earn £70k and we can’t afford to send DD to nursery full time, even with the 15 hours free per week that’s still about £300 per week. Call her bluff.

a lot of the comments here are strangely forgiving of this daughter. She doesn’t need therapy she needs to step up. She is definitely in the wrong.

Are you sure she definitely has a FT nursery place lined up or could it be a threat to hurt you? Many nurseries, good ones anyway, have long waiting lists for places, so if she’s saying she’s secured one at very short notice, it might not be true.

This is so sad.
I hope your daughter will realise that the time she spends now with her young son is so precious and will give him quality time. He is lucky to have you in his life and give him the stability and the love he naturally craves.

( I am sorry but I pressed the wrong option - I meant to click on you are not unreasonable.)

Is there any way you could go away for a week OP, just so your daughter realises how lucky she is to have help on hand?

@TheOpenBee You are definitely not being unreasonable but if you are worried about DC going to nursery, could you manage the 3 days a week she is working (although reiterate that she needs to pick up DC promptly!) plus one afternoon or morning a week? That way if she is struggling as a single parent with a poorly sleeping child, she still gets a few hours a week when she’s not working or with DC to catch up on her sleep (plus the Sunday that dad has DC).

I know posters on here will say that’s more free time than most single parents get (I’m a single parent btw), but if she is perhaps struggling with depression then knowing those few hours break are “booked in” (so she doesn’t have to ask) may help. I understand it’s a lot though and it may be too much for you, apologies if so ❤️

Although I must admit as a single parent I don’t understand her apparent need for frequent adult socialising, over spending time with her child - that’s just something you have to accept reduces dramatically when anyone, single or not makes the choice to become a parent 🤷‍♀️(at least when the kids are very young). It’s a necessary sacrifice and she needs to get over it imo.

Also, in her defense, dad having his son "when she wants to go out" isn't OK, he needs regular visitation, ideally as close to 50/50 as is practical if he wants/she wants. He is just as responsible for his child as your daughter and yet he clearly spends less time with his son than your daughter with zero fingers pointing at him.

not trying to sidetrack this thread which is rightly focused on the poor GS, his wonderful grandparents & the now strangely emotionally, physically absent, & seemingly compassionless daughter.

You may have missed the part where the OP states that the father pays all the rent, is working extra shifts in a bar at night to fund this whole escapade (assumedly while working a full time job also) & is staying (assumedly renting) a room in a friend's house. Further, he calls over & even stays over to allow her a night out.... with a new boyfriend....

Maybe that's why no one is pointing the finger at him!? I.e. He's doing his absolute best in a lousy situation by the sounds of it....

P.s. try reversing the roles for 1 second & see what that life looks like from his eyes, maybe? e.g. imagine what would this thread read like if the roles were reversed here, for a bit of balanced perspective perhaps!?

P.p.s. also with what we know of the DD, he may not even be allowed access to his child when he's free to see him, (when he's not working to support him & his part time working mother), is likely being subjected to exactly the same type of emotional abuse blackmail that the DD is subjecting her very supportive parents to, who looked after their GS so diligently, & have been 'punished' with threats for having had the mere temerity to pull her up on taking them for granted, and being a wholly horrible, neglectful & damagingly absent parent to her DS & their GS!?

Ah yes, that must be why.... rant over :)

What amazing grand parents you are, I can't even get my parents to have my child for the day! Even when my brother was in hospital, they refused to have his children. She is very lucky to have so much help. The fact she is trying to palm her kid off 6 days a week all day is utterly unfair, it is selfish behaviour and needs a wake up call. I feel sorry for the kid.

This is such a tricky situation. That poor little boy. This is a very sensitive situation to get right to ensure he has secure attachments in the future as he problem feels abandoned by your daughter and soon he will wonder why he is seeing either of you. You sound like fabulous grandparents. I wonder if your daughter is suffering some kind of anxiety/ depression over the end of the relationship. Maybe try talking to her and say you love her and GS to pieces and would love him to still come a few time a week but also for consistency. And gently ask her is everything OK your not prying or being nosy but you know how hard raising a child is/the end of a relationship but you like her want the best for him in all this. Good luck I hope you get to meet in the middle a bit 💗

Hmmm.. not really.

I think one of the reasons she’s sending him to nursery five days a week is so that she doesn’t have to face you and be confronted about her poor parenting. However , when he’s ill and nursery won’t take him I guarantee she ‘ll come running back to you for help. It’s still a horrible situation for everyone, though, except possibly the boyfriend who will be seeing lots of her . I think she’s probably at that early infatuation stage of her relationship and all she can think about is making time for her boyfriend. Your daughter and grandson are very fortunate to have you and I’m sure she’ll realise this eventually. Good luck to you all

Your daughter is suffering from depression. She may not accept it, but she needs help. The longer she leaves it, the worse it will become. Please, ask her if she will speak to her doctor ( if she can get an appointment) .

Hats off to you for being honest to (and about) your daughter, despite the freaky predictable reaction that most bad parents, when confronted with their behaviour . It cannot have been easy for you.

Whatever the circumstances of the split, her behaviour and the “don’t you want me to have a life” comment shows a shocking lack of parenting skills. She’s a mother, she only has one job and that’s to raise her son the best she can. Everything else is secondary and supportive of that objective.

Poor little boy doesn’t stand a chance of her behaviour continues like this.

Your grandson is ok - he's got you and his dad as well as his mum. Of course he craves the person who appears most emotionally distant at the moment but he isn't in the same situation as a child with no loving or supportive adults around.

Consider that your daughter is overwhelmed with work and parenting and life in general. Things that might help her:

• can you take your grandson home straight after dinner rather than have her collect him? You can start bath (if needed) + pyjamas so that he and his mum get some less stressful(?) time together before it's actually bedtime. (Collecting him so late I'd be surprised if he didn't sleep in the car on the way home which is a problem for making a 7pm bedtime work).
• help your daughter find a cleaner / gardener etc to help reduce the burden of stuff at home.

Hi op,

she doesn’t want the judgment and the nursery will take her child no questions asked. She evidently doesn’t want to/can’t care for him at this time…poor babe.
it is tricky honestly.

This is what I was thinking. There’s not many part time jobs that allow you to afford childcare on days you don’t work. And if you are getting benefits- like UC- they won’t pay for you to put them on days you don’t work.

Op- it’s hard but let it play out. When he is sick or she realises she can’t afford this, she’ll be back. That’s when you have a heart to heart. She sounds depressed but at the end of the day, when you have a child, they come first.

Poor, poor child.
And it goes without saying OP that YANBU. You sound like a lovely grandmother. Your daughter needs to step up as a parent and just get on with it.

she sounds incredibly selfish. She shouldn't have a boyfriend either, she should be putting her son first. In the current situation, suggest having him 3 days like before.

Tbf, if she feels over her relationship with her DH then I think it's fine that she has a bf, but she should really just be limiting to seeing him on her day off for herself for now when the child is with his dad.

P.s. however another poster did point out that it seems very soon to have a bf (particularly one she wants to see so often). With what we've heard of the DD on here from own mum, (& distraught GM) I wouldn't be at all surprised if the bf pre dated the marriage break up. If this is the case, it opens it's own can of worms.

I’ve been that mother. Actually, writing this makes me feel uncomfortable, but I can resonate with your daughter’s behaviour and wanted to share.

I was young, had an unplanned pregnancy, and was living with my parents. My family reputation was in tatters and nobody wanted anything to do with me in my family or the father’s family.

I put a lot of responsibility on to my parents in my son’s early life and I actually moved out at one point leaving him with my parents for a few months. Actually, if I recall, they refused to let me take him with me. They were right.

I was angry, resentful, bitter and felt so isolated at being left to care for a child on my own. Mostly anger. I was acting out and did not have the capability of regulating myself in any area of my life. Irresponsible and risky behaviour became my default when I needed to feel emotionally connected to something or someone. It was almost addictive and that behaviour is what distracted me from being the mother my son deserved.

I had no emotional support and it felt like nobody cared about me and the trauma I had also endured. Sadly, for my son, I had not bridged my own emotional state with my responsibility as a mother to him.

it cost him and me eventually. My son and I are not as close as I would like because his formative years were stabilised by his grandparents and not me - his parental bond was with them. I had unwittingly removed myself from his affection. I carry it with me every day and it is the biggest source of guilt I feel in life.

Fortunately he has grown into a lovely guy with his own family and I’m so proud of him, but I can’t really take credit for that. That credit goes to my parents. He’s in my life and he’s affectionate with me but there’s always a slight awkwardness I feel, me or him, I’m not sure.

Im telling you this because, if I had got counselling or the correct emotional support at the time, rather than constant criticism and demands from others, healing would have come to me sooner and my son would not have suffered. I’d have started to enjoy being a loving mother to my son so many years before I actually did. I needed somebody to tell me I needed help and to help me find that help. I found that help too late for my child, his abandonment issues were deep set.

At that time in my life counselling was not as widely available as it is now and you were just expected to get on with it. But, it’s widely available today and is something your daughter can access.

If I were you I’d try and have a conversation with your daughter reassuring her that you’re there to support them both and want to keep looking after your grandson. The wider family network is also important in supporting your daughter too.

I’d try to establish whether your daughter is open to additional emotional support. Ultimately your grandson needs her to get help so that she can be there for him. Try and schedule 1-1 time with her and see if she will open up to you about the relationship breakdown and how she feels about it.

You sound like wonderful grandparents and with a sensitive, practical approach I’m sure your family can get through this.

Good luck.

It sounds like she’s depressed to be honest.

@Yellowpens - what a beautifully written, honest , vulnerable post. I found it quite emotional to read. Thank you for sharing I’m sure it will be very helpful for OP and for others who are judging her DD quite harshly. It can be quite difficult to put yourself in another persons shoes.

I’m so glad your son is part of your life even if it isn’t exactly how you’d like.