Am I as a grandmother being unreasonable?

[TheOpenBee]

Please excuse this wall of text...

I'm looking for some advice on what to do with our current situation.
I have a daughter 27 who has a 3 year old son. My daughter works 3 days a week and up until December last year we looked after our grandson while she was at work on those 3 days.

Last December she split up with my grandsons father and he moved away. My daughter started bringing our grandson to us every single day, on days she wasn't working she'd be dropping him off and going home to bed saying she was tired because my grandson wasn't sleeping well without his father's presence and she'd been having a hard time at work. We accepted this for a few weeks but then it started to get silly.

My daughter works a 15 minute drive from our home. She'd finish work at 5 and instead of coming to pick her son up at 5.30 ish like normal she'd start turning up at 7 with no explanation as to where she had been.

He'd be served his evening meal at 5.30 and start getting excited that mummy would be back soon then he'd wait and wait for her as she gets later and later arriving. It breaks my heart when he keeps asking for reassurance that mummy is coming back.

When she is at our home with her son she sits on her phone ignoring him. He has to ask her for affection or to be involved in something he is doing. One example was last weekend my daughter and grandson were at my home, my grandson got a sandpit for his birthday and was stupidly excited when we said he could play in it. He went around everyone in the room asking them to put their shoes on and come and see his new toy. His mum for a change actually did what he asked and came outside, you could see his eyes light up when he saw her coming outside. She stayed maybe 5 minutes then decided whoever she was texting on the phone was more interesting and went back inside. My grandson looked at his grandad and said "she's not coming back is she" got really sad, asked for a hug then decided he didn't want to play with sand anymore and asked to go back inside himself.

My grandson is without doubt missing his mummy, he sees her for less than an hour in the morning and as his bedtime is technically 7 a lot of nights she takes him straight home to bed.

On the rare occasion she's paying him enough attention and actually praises him he gets emotional and immediately starts to cry. He craves her attention so much that when he gets it he doesn't know what to do.

Now we move on to a few weeks later and grandson has still been at our house all-day 6 days a week (his daddy has him on a Sunday) the only difference is my daughter on the 3 days she's not been working has been coming up to our house with him. She will sit on her phone texting her new boyfriend all day while we look after the child.

We talked to my daughter mentioning that we were unhappy with the current situation and our grandson can't be with us all the time and needed some 'just mummy' time. She got really defensive saying we just didn't want her to have a life and stormed out.
The next week she actually spent a whole day with him taking him to a local activity centre and baking cupcakes with him which he loves to do. My grandson came to us the next day happy and super chatty telling us all the things he'd done with mummy. We hoped that things were getting a tiny bit better and the next week she spent a whole day with him too.

Now to today my daughter turned up at our house saying my grandson was obviously too much of a problem for us to keep looking after so she'd enrolled him in a local nursery from 8am to 6pm all 5 days a week.
This is not what we wanted at all. While we agree nursery would be a good thing for him 50 hours a week seems like torture for a child who is already worried that he's been left when his parents are out of sight for only a short while. We were and still are always happy to have him while my daughter works. He's going from missing his daddy, to missing his mummy (even when she is physically with him) to having his grandparents taken away too and it's breaking my heart. All we wanted was for her to spend some time with him and instead she's decided to send him away from all of us.

What can I do? Am I being unreasonable asking her to actually participate in her child's life more?

You're not unreasonable BUT I'd suggest, given prior to the split she was a great mummy, that she is having a rough time. Instead of focusing on the symptom (being not the best for her son) see if you can focus on the cause and provide her some grace. It's very hard because your GS who you love is on the receiving end, but I think telling her she's doing a bad job will make her more down, lacking in confidence, wanting to run away from it all. She needs her mum to be her mum for a bit and provide some love and care.
Also, in her defense, dad having his son "when she wants to go out" isn't OK, he needs regular visitation, ideally as close to 50/50 as is practical if he wants/she wants. He is just as responsible for his child as your daughter and yet he clearly spends less time with his son than your daughter with zero fingers pointing at him.
I'd give it time, it's a raw split, you're amazing grandparents who love your GS so much and clearly are an amazing presence in his life. Given from Sept he will do some nursery anyway, can you stick it out just this summer? Maybe you can't (reasonable) but maybe set what you can do out with your daughter rather than telling her what she's doing wrong. It sounds like she will get there but she's perhaps depressed, perhaps feeling like she's failing and worried about the future and lonely. None of that excuses being a bad parent, but I'm not sure telling her that is going to get you very far and she needs her parents as much as your son needs his GPs. You're not being unreasonable, but I'd focus on the long term goal and I'm not sure the current approach is going to get you there...

Now to today my daughter turned up at our house saying my grandson was obviously too much of a problem for us to keep looking after so she'd enrolled him in a local nursery from 8am to 6pm all 5 days a week.

And how is she going to pay for that when she only works three days a week? Even after any free hours she's surely going to be out of pocket?

I hope your response to her was 'Actually no, it's YOU who clearly finds it too much of a problem to look after your own child, even on a part time basis.'

I won't apologise for having more compassion for a neglected child than a grown woman who's capable of working and starting a new relationship so clearly isn't in that desperate a situation.

She's obviously not his main caregiver right now, his grandmother is.

I went through a horrible relationship breakdown while my ds was that age and it was fucking brutal. Going from having 2 involved parents to absolutely no support is really over whelming, not to mention the grief for the relationship, the future you thought you had, the family you thought your child was going to grow up in. Its a lot.

My guess is that she needs counselling, might be depressed and overall isn't coping.

I think you need to focus less on dgs and actually focus on your dd and seeing where she is at as a person and what support she needs because it sounds like she's struggling massively and if you are challenging her parenting (even if meant lovingly) you're pushing her away at a time when she really needs you.

Tbh if the nursery gives her the space during the week to do what she needs to to be present in the evenings and at weekends then that might be what is needed right now for her to get her head straight.

I didn't get the opportunity to grieve my relationship because I had no choice but to focus on ds which was fine initially, but it hit me like a truck a few months later and floored me. Right now she needs to know you're there for her unconditionally.

I agree with your DH. Usually my answer would be "talk to your daughter honestly and tell her to snap out of being a lazy mother and take responsibility for her son". My concern though is mostly for your grandchild - a little 3 y.o munchkin.

Your DD has issues and right now, it's not fully engaged in looking after him. Confrontation with her will likely have the opposite effect of what you want, with the result of your g/s paying the price.

Nursery is good for kids and if he can attend the free hours allowed, great. But in your situation, I'd be looking after him the other days before he goes to school.

There are no winners in this situation OP. The only thing you can do is to provide stability as much as possible for the little one.

I'm wondering if the way to approach a discussion might be to come from the angle that you are worried about your daughter rather than your grandchild. If you say that you are worried about his welfare then you will get her back up. She will is it as criticism on her. If you say that you are worried about her welfare (which I'm sure is true - she's not behaving like a responsible adult and that's not healthy) then there is less reason for her to be defensive and you might get less knee jerk reaction.

That is so so sad, poor little boy.

I think you should think about taking on full time guardianship of this poor little boy.

Some say your daughter is struggling, I think however she's a selfish abusive cow.

Not only is your DD neglecting your DGS's emotional wellbeing, she also seems to be prioritising a relationship...and time...with a new boyfriend rather than with her own son.
You say her ex partner is paying all her rent, plus maintenance, she's working part time, just three days a week, presumably she is also pocketing all child related benefits aswell, while all the costs...and care...falls on you and your DH.
I'm sorry OP, but she just sounds incredibly selfish.

@TheOpenBee I understand this is hard on you but she is an adult and to some extent you maybe need to step back. I think you should give some clear ground rules and try not to be drawn in by her emotional blackmail. If you keep letting her take the mick by treading all over your boundaries (swanning back when she likes) she will do it all the more. I’d suggest you say something like ‘we’re happy to have GS on 2 of the 3 days you work, picking up at 5.30pm for consistency so GS has consistency - of course we can make exceptions when needed, with prior arrangement. We feel it’s probably a bit much for GS to go to nursery as he is feeling unsafe after the break-up and missing his Dad and your attention but it is your call of course. As he is missing his Dad so much could you involve him a bit more, maybe on one of your work days even?’

obviously you choose how many days/details etc, just a suggestion!

edited because I put the wrong number of days.

So sad for the little boy, and you x

The only person suffering in this mess is the child , personally if it were my grandchild he would probably be living with me full time by now . It seems to me that your daughter has decided that she has missed her ‘youth’ and is now trying to relive that time at the expense of her child . She is selfish and neglectful of his needs and the best thing would be for him to have a stable home and go to nursery a few mornings a week and you seem to be in the best position to accommodate that - although obviously both of his parents should be paying towards his upbringing / care fees etc .

You get free hours once they turn 3 though so if she’s just paying for the top up, it’s doable.

This is for her to solve. Keep inviting them around regularly, be available to babysit if she needs it and if she asks have a 👍 mber of days you would be happy to have him ( but put boundaries in place eg you need to pick him up by 5pm and take him home for his tea). Wait. Full time nursery is expensive and she may not be able to keep it up. Also where is the baby's dad on this? Does he not want shared custody?

This is so sad and it breaks my heart. You sound like a lovely grandma, and your grandson is undoubtedly better off with you 3 days a week while your daughter works getting proper love and attention, than he would be at nursery. Please try to ensure you have him on those days. I would then say he’s probably better off at nursery on the other 2 days if your daughter doesn’t pay him attention anyway. At least he will getting what he need from you and grandad, and hopefully his dad, and hopefully your daughter sorts herself out soon to make up the rest.

I was your DDs age when my DSs father left us. I just had to get on with it.

I don't think she has any intention of doing so. If it's not this new boyfriend, it will be another.

Where is the money coming from for nursery? I wonder if she's trying to punish you.

I'd be tempted to apologise and have him live with you.

I have a DD with a 3 years old, I too was looking after him while she worked p/t and then he went into nursery in the morning, I picked him up in the afternoon, fed him his evening meal until his dad picked him up, plus looked after him when she had driving lessons etc. I’m now being blocked from seeing him as her b/f lied about me as he was jealous of my bond with my GS and I had the audacity to call him out on it.
I think some GP’s have to keep their mouths shut just to keep the peace else we get pushed out.
My DD is in an emotionally abusive relationship, I’ve been very careful over the years to butter him up, I’ve never said a word to DD about her situation or put him down, I’ve just been supportive. My door will always be open for them.

Your GS only gets one childhood and a lack of love and care from his mum will eventually take a massive toll on the rest of his life. Your DD maybe needs professional support. Ultimately as parents, our children have to come first, no matter what feelings we have and emotions we experience. I say this as someone who became a single parent whilst in an inpatient parent and baby unit, so I more than understand how brutal things can be.

You obviously know more than me.

This was such a sad read, I have a two year old boy and my heart breaks for your grandson. I think all you can do is just to be there for your grandson, I know you want his mum to step back into ehat she was like before and support her as your daughter but for now the main thing is your grandson doesnt have yet more upheaval.

Can you talk to your daughter and just, without grovelling or apologising, just say you're here to support her and grandson and if it means more time with him then that's fine, he's happy with you and it's so sad your daughter would rather him do longer days than alot of people work at nursery than have am honest conversation with you and a hard look at her own interactions with her son.

@TheOpenBee I think you need to make a decision and stick to it 100%. Either you fully accept that your GS is your daughter's child and for her look after however (badly) she wishes, or you accept that (because you love him) at least for the time being GS is your responsibility.

You simply can not change your daughters behaviour, no matter how much you disagree with it. And i understand why you do, because you wish the best for your GS.

So, either accept the care your daughter gives him. Or take on the responsibility. But what you can not do is being used as an adhoc default childcare and being upset about it and talk, nag and resist. Because that keeps your daughter in the driving seat of the situation which is unhealthy for all.

Someone earlier has suggested that OP and her DH should apply for guardianship.
I've no idea if the little boy's DM is taking the p**s or is unwell/overwhelmed following the end of her realationship with his dad.
I would hope that it wouldn't come to this, but legal Guardianship or a Child Arrangements Order would certainly be an option for OP.

You need to put a stop to this nonsense immediately. Look after him 3 days a week as before and no she may not come to your house with him on the other days. She should be entitled to childcare.

I think I would be offering to have your Grandson just live with your full time, then you know he’s getting the attention he needs and deserves, and I think she might agree to go along with it ?

I’ve known grandparents bring up children, in lovely families, where perhaps you might not expect it.

It sounds to me like the child’s father ran off, she doesn’t really want to look after him, if you do, offer it as an option.

It would be better in the long run, than his mother and father, who don’t seem to be concerned about him

Poor little bubba is almost being punished by his mother who appears now to resent looking after the child of someone who has left her, despite the fact the father is working and paying her rent.
5 days a week in a nursery straight out of the gate will be too much for him especially given the current instability he is already experiencing. Pool little lad.
Your daughter appears to be pressing the nuclear option as a way to get you to continune to look after him - an all or nothing strategy. Hopefully you can find a middle way..