Am I as a grandmother being unreasonable?

[TheOpenBee]

Please excuse this wall of text...

I'm looking for some advice on what to do with our current situation.
I have a daughter 27 who has a 3 year old son. My daughter works 3 days a week and up until December last year we looked after our grandson while she was at work on those 3 days.

Last December she split up with my grandsons father and he moved away. My daughter started bringing our grandson to us every single day, on days she wasn't working she'd be dropping him off and going home to bed saying she was tired because my grandson wasn't sleeping well without his father's presence and she'd been having a hard time at work. We accepted this for a few weeks but then it started to get silly.

My daughter works a 15 minute drive from our home. She'd finish work at 5 and instead of coming to pick her son up at 5.30 ish like normal she'd start turning up at 7 with no explanation as to where she had been.

He'd be served his evening meal at 5.30 and start getting excited that mummy would be back soon then he'd wait and wait for her as she gets later and later arriving. It breaks my heart when he keeps asking for reassurance that mummy is coming back.

When she is at our home with her son she sits on her phone ignoring him. He has to ask her for affection or to be involved in something he is doing. One example was last weekend my daughter and grandson were at my home, my grandson got a sandpit for his birthday and was stupidly excited when we said he could play in it. He went around everyone in the room asking them to put their shoes on and come and see his new toy. His mum for a change actually did what he asked and came outside, you could see his eyes light up when he saw her coming outside. She stayed maybe 5 minutes then decided whoever she was texting on the phone was more interesting and went back inside. My grandson looked at his grandad and said "she's not coming back is she" got really sad, asked for a hug then decided he didn't want to play with sand anymore and asked to go back inside himself.

My grandson is without doubt missing his mummy, he sees her for less than an hour in the morning and as his bedtime is technically 7 a lot of nights she takes him straight home to bed.

On the rare occasion she's paying him enough attention and actually praises him he gets emotional and immediately starts to cry. He craves her attention so much that when he gets it he doesn't know what to do.

Now we move on to a few weeks later and grandson has still been at our house all-day 6 days a week (his daddy has him on a Sunday) the only difference is my daughter on the 3 days she's not been working has been coming up to our house with him. She will sit on her phone texting her new boyfriend all day while we look after the child.

We talked to my daughter mentioning that we were unhappy with the current situation and our grandson can't be with us all the time and needed some 'just mummy' time. She got really defensive saying we just didn't want her to have a life and stormed out.
The next week she actually spent a whole day with him taking him to a local activity centre and baking cupcakes with him which he loves to do. My grandson came to us the next day happy and super chatty telling us all the things he'd done with mummy. We hoped that things were getting a tiny bit better and the next week she spent a whole day with him too.

Now to today my daughter turned up at our house saying my grandson was obviously too much of a problem for us to keep looking after so she'd enrolled him in a local nursery from 8am to 6pm all 5 days a week.
This is not what we wanted at all. While we agree nursery would be a good thing for him 50 hours a week seems like torture for a child who is already worried that he's been left when his parents are out of sight for only a short while. We were and still are always happy to have him while my daughter works. He's going from missing his daddy, to missing his mummy (even when she is physically with him) to having his grandparents taken away too and it's breaking my heart. All we wanted was for her to spend some time with him and instead she's decided to send him away from all of us.

What can I do? Am I being unreasonable asking her to actually participate in her child's life more?

A very short sentence that reveals you don’t have the child’s long term welfare in your thoughts.

Wanting long term change from the mother isn’t about my ‘ego’. How bizarre.

Anyone who cares for the child can see through your egotistic facade. Engaging in a protracted standoff that ends with the child being dumped with strangers all day (whether that be a bluff or not) is simply a matter of ego vs ego. It's obvious my dear.

you sound like a wonderful grandparent and it is great that this little boy has you in his life to give him consistent love and care. How was your daughter with her son before the split? I know that when my marriage broke up (he walked out when our baby was 7 months old) I was scared, exhausted, depressed and angry, a roller coaster of emotions so maybe your daughter is struggling with a lot of negative emotions. Maybe you might be able to ask her if deep down she is struggling and her indifference to her son is a symptom of this. Of course this does not mitigate the confusion and distress this poor little one is experiencing, in many ways for me having to care for my baby was what got me though, there was still joy to be had in life from this little person and I hope your daughter rediscovers this

What are you on about, egotistical facade 😂

I suggested that the grandmother offer to have the child for three - four days a week if they can - how is that a standoff?! And I mentioned the father wasn’t doing enough. It’s about offering support whilst simultaneously letting the daughter know that her behaviour isn’t acceptable and she needs to change

Are you the OPs selfish daughter?! And don’t call me ‘dear’. Being patronising isn’t a good way of putting forward your opinion.

Why is it OK for the father to check out of parenting (one day a week is not active parenting) I feel sorry for your daughter. She needs support. If 5 days a week nursery will help her, so be it. Many children go 5 days a week because their parents are working. Both parents need to step up. Not just the mum. It's always left to the mother to sort out. The ex bf is able to have 6 days a week to himself, maybe if he did 3.5 days each then that would help.

Wow, this is heartbreaking

Going to a nursery is not ‘torture for a child.’ It sounds to me like they will probably develop a better relationship together without so much intervention from you. You’re treating her like a child and she’s acting like one. It’s a toxic dynamic.

This is hearbreaking.

She needs a good talking to and to bloody grow up. What she's doing to your little grandson is unforgivable. 50 hours away from his family is just cruel. What is she thinking?

I'd actually consider reporting her.

Why doesn't his dad intervene?

Offering it humbly is pretty much eating humble pie, because if you dangle it like some kind of evil Lady Bountiful, it's not going to work. That and nice supportive talks with the daughter is OP's only option. She's already given her daughter a good talking to and it hasn't worked, and IMO continuing down the condemning route is only going to deepen the mother's clear dislike/resentment of the child.

I dislike lazy, selfish parents as much as everyone else but you must learn to take your ego out of the equation and eat humble pie for the time being if you don't want the child to suffer. Very silly to suggest I'm the daughter... dear

You want to report someone for sending their child to nursery? Don’t be so fucking ridiculous

Ignoring how unbelievably rude you are being, OP doesn’t have to roll over and accept that her daughter can ignore her own child. That would be pretty poor parenting from the OP. Her daughter needs support which can take the form of childcare, a listening ear but also some firm home truths about her behaviour. Pandering to her is not good support, enabling poor behaviour isn’t helpful. I say that as someone who has pretty much been in the daughter’s behaviour except I didn’t start up new social relationships, I was genuinely depressed. Telling someone that their behaviour is acceptable when it isn’t and bowing to their every whim is not good support. Helping them to get back on their feet is.

I won’t be engaging with you any longer as you seem to feel that rudeness is an acceptable way to engage with someone else. You can keep your opinion, I will keep mine and hopefully the OP and her family find a way to work things out.

mhmmm bunfight and OP not back.

OP has already done that and it hasn't worked. What else are you going to do? Buy a love spell on the black market and cast it? Force the mother to kiss and cuddle the child? Seems to be eating humble pie is pretty much the best available solution in the short run so the child doesn't feel totally abandoned. Ego or not.

Also very rich for someone who started our conversation with "bullshit" to start acting like the victim of rudeness now lol

I wonder if she’s one of those parents that is only interested in the child as long as they’re part of the “happy family” package and once that crumbles, they don’t want the reality of parenting anymore.

Regardless, she’s 27, not a baby. She needs to get help for her mental health and stop neglecting her child.

My good friend describes her 33 year old son ignoring his 4 year old son by always being on his phone. He often literally has to pull at his clothing or get right in his face to get his attention. It breaks her heart. She is very involved in the little boy's life and tries to make up for her son's shortcomings. These fucking smart phones are EVIL in some hands, honestly they are.

Poor little boy, my heart breaks for him thinking about how much he just wants some attention from his mummy :(

YANBU at all. You are clearly a loving grandparent.

Your daughter will come around - some arsehole just dumped her and that’s devastating. Give her awhile to regroup.

Sweet jebus - the OP never said who broke up with who. And sorry, but all the evidence in this story is that it is the daughter who is acting like the complete arsehole.

I mean dumping her son at his grandparents 5 days a week , when she is free 2 of those. To be arriving back at 7pm, with her son so eager to see her, since 5.15pm!! Constantly on her phone & not present as a parent, and the heart wrenching story about the sand box. Oh yeah, then having been "guilted" into spending her days off with her son for measly weeks (of days off) I.e. 4 days, she goes away unannounced and books her kid into 50hours a week of childcare. No consideration for her lovely mum & and the child's lovely grandparents whatsoever!?

Jeez - she may be going through some issues herself - but she sounds simply awful tbh. A self centred, spiteful b !!

I am inclined to agree really, people saying she has no time to herself but she works three days a week, drops her son off at her parents five days a week and his dad has him once - so she has three days at work and three days to herself.

She is doing one day of parenting and 7 bedtimes and dad is doing one day of parenting. They both sound utterly shit.

I think you would be unreasonable if you don't tell your daughter that her parenting is not good enough, although that is a difficult conversation to have. Maybe she is struggling, perhaps with depression, but how would she feel trying to interact with someone who won't put their phone down? It's bloody rude and a dreadful example to a wee boy who is already feeling abandoned by her. Tell her you would like to still help with childcare - decide how many days or half-days you want to do.

It's fine for mum to have some time to herself but unfair on her son to not devote time and attention to him too.

Your daughter is extremely immature for her age and very selfish to give such little empathy or consideration to her own child.

I have absolutely no doubt she will be dropping him off soon enough at yours when she needs time to herself. As concerned as you are about your grandson, at least at the nursery he will be around other children, so consider that one good thing to come from this.

If she is only working part-time, sticking him in nursery for 50 hours a week is sad. It is clear that she doesn't want to take care of her boy and that is where I think you may need to consider intervening.

OP, based on the info you provided naturally we all agree that your dd is not meeting your dgs emotional needs and that she seems not to be in the right headspace for being a parent;

But since you have not given us any other info about your dd, your relationship with her prior to this, what happened with the father etc, we cannot give you any sensible advice.

OP,
That's a very sad story, and so hard for you & the child's grandfather to have to watch this play out, especially as ye're so involved with the lad.

It's pretty clear, ye're a great influence in your grandson's life and ye're even more important now. Please keep this in mind.

I would sit down with your daughter & reassure her that ye are there for her & your grandson, whatever else. That you're more than happy to look after the lad 3-4 days a week say as before, and if she'd like to talk to ye ever about anything else she's always very welcome to. etc

And then leave it to her.

P.s. I think any comments on her parenting skills, or how much her son (&your grandson) miss her being a loving mum, would be quite misplaced for now. Nonetheless don't back down, don't apologise for trying to do the right thing previously by pointing things out (hard truths by the sounds of it) to her, just leave these to 'implied silences' for now & for a while imho.

P.p.s. when I read your OP I was wondering if your daughter struggling with a drink problem, or something else tbh, but even if she is , it's up to her to open up & seek support & help she needs for whatever she is going through (even if it's 'just' break up issues) in her own time. She's an adult, your poor grandson is just a kid, a kid so obviously feeling quite unloved & uncherished at the mo sadly.... However this is where ye can come in as the lovely grandparents ye seem to be. Good on ye!!

Good luck to ye & your grandson OP!!!

This is so sad. Sounds like she might be not doing well about the split - can you offer her some "mummy time" at first to ask her what she needs and mother her a bit so she can feel safe to open up a bit.
If she can get to a better place I'd be trying to get her asap to join perhaps an early years parenting course so that she can understand the deep psychological damage this behaviour can cause at his most formative time in life? It's so well know that these early years are integral to healthy development - pre Tory gov a lot of money was put into surestart centres for this but it was mostly cut away in the "austerity budgets".
Try to get her see, after some time for her from you, that life is long. Time and input now will lead to a much happier and easier future for her too rather than a life with a son who struggles to have healthy attachments with people because he couldn't form a secure attachment to his Mum.

Don't be so ridiculous. I mean for the obvious neglect OP is concerned about.

This post made me feel really sad, but it also resonated with me , although admittedly I did not disengage to the level you have described your daughter has .

when I was going through a rough time wanting out of my terribly depressing marriage, I utilised my parents looking after my young daughter alot. I would also disengage at times and I know hand on heart did not give as much as I could of during that period. I was wrapped up in my own problems and looking for a distraction ( other people’s attention etc) than focus on being a mum first. I can remember my parents explaining to me how my behaviour was wrong but it wasn’t until I was out of that messy place mentally that I could truly see that. I had counselling for a long time and worked hard on myself and in time became a much better mother.
I am now happily remarried to a wonderful man and we have another daughter and second time round I am a honestly much better mother. My heart aches for my eldest and the time I took for granted and wasn’t my best. But I work hard every day to make up for it. We are incredibly close as a family.
I just wanted to reiterate really that this could be a sign your daughter is struggling with some things and it might be hard for her to recognise that and the effect her behaviour is having on her son.
you sound like a wonderful grandparent and she is very lucky to have your support. I would like others have said ask to have him on her working days so he is getting the love and support from you a reasonable percentage of the week.