to feel annoyed about the phone situation?

[TheInternetNeverForgets]

My eldest daughter is 11.

She is without phone. She is literally the only girl in her class without one (fairly small school). She does have a smartwatch which she can use to message her close pals (although it doesn't use WhatsApp, just texts, so she’s not part of class WhatsApp or Snapchat etc) and that I can use to contact her when she’s out and about. She has no need for a phone. She hasn’t really asked for one up until now.

I really don’t agree with the use of smart phones for kids of that age. I don’t believe they are old/responsible enough to handle the issues that being constantly accessible and visible to their school friends can bring. There is no let up from any bullying or friendship issues. The scope for nasty behaviour is massive. There are so, so many reasons I am against this. I’m trying to protect her from it I guess.

Anyway. It’s becoming increasingly obvious that she’s being left out due to lack of phone. There’s a lot of in jokes she doesnt get. A lot of chat she misses out on. Class meet ups (although her friends mum is quite good at texting me to ensure she’s included, but not all the time). The pressure to cave and let her have a phone is increasing. I don’t want her to be a pariah. I want her to fit in with her peers.

So what choice do I have? And yet, I don’t believe that I am wrong in my views about phones for kids.

I know of smaller schools where the parents have collectively decided to not give their children phones. So there no children missing out as none of them have tnem.

I totally agree with this and hopefully by the time my younger children get to this sort of age, it’ll be far less common and much easier to hold the line.

But for my eldest, parents who have allowed smart phones aren’t going to take them away again. It’s too late. It’s just so frustrating.

Thanks for sharing this. My DD is Y6 and just turned 11. She has ASD and like a pp struggles socially already, so I am worried that my current stance on phones (eg not caving) will affect her when she starts secondary in Sept, so we are inching towards getting her one in time for the summer, so she can more easily stay in touch with friends and gain more independence. This phone recommendation sounds great and just what I want for her. Thank you.

OP I completely agree with you. The internet/sm/mobile phones are utter childhood thieves in my view. The longer you can put it off, the better. And when it becomes a necessary evil, make it purely a communication tool as best you can. Good luck!

Yes, the boat has sailed for your eldest.

For your younger children, perhaps approach it more proactively. Talk to the parents of their peers long before the subject of buying phones comes up. See if you can mutually agree to delay it a bit.

I have already started.

The thing is, I had this conversation over and over with the parents of my eldest’s best friends. They all agreed with me. We all agreed to stand firm. And then one by one they caved anyway.

I'm completely in agreement with you.
And I understand the predicament of the social aspect.
You can set rules. Phones only to be used downstairs, then charged downstairs over night. No phones in bedrooms type of things.
No WhatsApp groups- or one with just immediate close friends.
You have the pin and can look anytime.
Snapchat is a big no as it all gets deleted too quickly for my liking.
No downloading any new apps without permission.
Have phone free time, including adults so you are modelling healthy screen time.
I think set some guidelines, they can be eased slowly and as she proves she is responsible enough.
But also discuss that I'd the rules are not followed the phone can be removed.
Unfortunately I don't agree with lots to do with screen time so young, but it feels like lots of parents just give their kids free reign and tell parents with concerns to get over themselves...

That must be frustrating. I guess they didn't feel as strongly about it as you do.

Ultimately, you can only control the choices that you make about your own kids. That's one of the many challenges of parenting. There will be many more as they head into the teen years.

Yeah there’s a lot of defensiveness around it.

I am a 90s baby and even I had a phone when I was 11 so it's not exactly a new concept

OP - it is OK to have the courage of your convictions and not get her a smartphone until she is older. I recognise the benefits for that age group of having a phone (fitting in with peer group etc) but for me personally, the risks were too great so I gave them a basic Nokia at 11 and they got a smartphone aged 13/14 (my youngest doesn't have a smartphone yet). They weren't exactly happy about it at the time and I'm not going to pretend there weren't downsides, but overall I still feel it was the right choice for my family. And my older children have since told me they are grateful I took that approach.

So please remember - this is YOUR decision to take. So do what feels right for you and your daughter. Solidarity!

Yes, a phone for calls and messages, but what we’re talking about for very young kids is smartphones- an entirely different phone, not used for calls and messages, but social media and WhatsApp (lols at anyone who thinks that’s just about friends messages), pictures, videos, distraction, concentration struggles, anti social scrolling and addiction to the dopamine hits from approval and interaction with people who aren’t in their friendship groups in real life, the list goes on.

My dc actually has the same make of phone i had in the 90s and it’s all they need at this age to keep in contact with home or to message social arrangements with friends…playing snake!

I am sure a lot of parents think there are things ,in their generation they don't agree with but what is more important being 'right' or your child?

Yeah. I mean I’d give my daughter an old Nokia - as I said, she has a smartwatch already - it’s the smart phones and all the associated apps that are the issue.

oh I’m not sure I have the energy for this post.

The point is I believe that a smart phone will be harmful to my child. I’m not just objecting for the sake of objecting.

I agree with you OP. My daughter is in identical situation.
Stay strong.
Read The Anxious Generation by Jonathan Heidt.

I think the problem is, right now smartphones are too smart to be safe, and dumb phones like Nokias are too dumb to be practical through all the teenage years. It's a long game. Whether the first dumb phone is a Nokia, or a smartphone dumbed down to almost a Nokia level (that can be gradually de-dumbed app by app over the years), really doesn't matter as much as the principle that having unlimited access to your own personal smartphone with all apps and internet should an adult-only thing that simply doesn't happen for any child under the age of 18.

If she’s got any sense she will be thanking her.

My year 7 DC has no phone. I am going to hold out as long as I can. At the moment, DC is glad not to be involved in the problems caused by group chats. The head of year said this is the biggest issue they have, despite phones being banned in school the impact of their use out of school is massive.

As if her school friends are going to want one of the mothers joining their group?!?

Could be but not necessarily so. My DS got a smartphone when he started secondary last year (11 y old). He goes home by himself and I let him see his WApp mess from friends (I look as well and I have explained to him why) and look what the teachers have put up for homework (it's all digital). Then his phone is confiscated until the next day. For his new friendship group the phone is vital. One of the boys doesn't have it and his mum is texting me a lot asking for things while the other ones ask among themselves. They are all nice boys and their conversation is mostly about video games or upcoming birthdays or sending funny videos. So far nothing inappropriate and there is a nice tone. I do not regret giving him a phone.

I’m sure many have said it already, but you can’t even order give a smart phone that will allow her access to WhatsApp, but don’t allow her anything else.
my eldest is 13 and has had my old iPhone 6 for almost 2 years.
it’s linked to mine as a child phone, if she tries to download anything it comes up on my phone for permission.
it goes dead at 9pm.

there are ways to limit it, it’s not all or nothing.

You really need to get her a phone ASAP. You are causing far more issues with your stance than she will ever have because she has a phone. Hopefully it's not too late.

My Daughter is 13…..year 8 and has NO social media. no snapchat. No tikkytok no WhatsApp

1. just like you i didn’t want her exposed to “nasty” stuff that goes on in media twitter finger groups.
2. i used the iphone family so she wasn’t able to download etc
3. i also used the age ratings for the sm apps as a back up to why she couldn’t have it before 13….now her behaviour at school is diabolical so just another reason that she won’t be having sm, until she can navigate situations, tell the truth and be honest about her actions (im pretty sure you dd isn’t here)
4. she does lots of extra curricular so wheres the time to be doom scrolling like me right now.
5. she’ll definitely need a phone In secondary school for your own peace of mind …..anything could happen.

I had an interesting conversation with some teens that I was looking after at the end of last year about phones. They're a good set of kids, not the sort to get into trouble, with a nice friendship group.

Among other things they told me that most people they know of whose parents wouldn't let them have a phone/smart phone do actually have them - friends have sold/passed on their cast off. Those with a non-smart phone just have a SIM that fits both and swap it for parents to see; those who aren't allowed one just keep it away. They've generally got them on PAYG and use Wifi.

Interesting observation they made were: those whose parents didn't know tended more to downloading/saying things that were problematic, they felt because the rest of them knew that their parents checked and there was the threat of having it taken away - and they had them all night rather than a limit.

They also told me of times when they'd felt that the phones had kept them safe (one told how they asked to be picked up from a sleepover when they were uncomfortable for example), put them in a situation (this was actually a very serious situation they gave me) that they could help a friend, and how they used them in awkward situations to help smooth things over.

But one of the big things they said was that having the phones, with supervision, was preparing them for later. The older one (16yo) said that because she'd had her phone at a younger age, she'd turned to her parents for help. She said if she was given one now, she'd be thinking she was too old to ask for help/be instructed by parents on how to use it.

They felt that the big thing was that parents/schools/other responsible people should be teaching them how to use them responsibly, rather than just saying they shouldn't have them and then them getting them when older and suddenly having the freedom.

@CharityShopMensGlasses you’re not alone, more and more schools are seeing the benefits of going smartphone free.

I really wish I hadn’t given my two smartphones when they went to secondary school. I tried an app to manage the hours they could use them but they would find ways around it. Youngest is glued to his, I find it appalling but he’s 20 and I can do nothing now. At least they don’t use Facebook, Snapchat etc because they understood that these places can be hideous if you’re in with the wrong crowd.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/smartphone-free-schools-children-barnet-london-dan-tomlinson-b1211689.html

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/social-media-st-albans-school-ban-phone-children-b2730745.html#:~:text=Just%20under%20a%20year%20ago,until%20the%20age%20of%2014.