to feel annoyed about the phone situation?

[TheInternetNeverForgets]

My eldest daughter is 11.

She is without phone. She is literally the only girl in her class without one (fairly small school). She does have a smartwatch which she can use to message her close pals (although it doesn't use WhatsApp, just texts, so she’s not part of class WhatsApp or Snapchat etc) and that I can use to contact her when she’s out and about. She has no need for a phone. She hasn’t really asked for one up until now.

I really don’t agree with the use of smart phones for kids of that age. I don’t believe they are old/responsible enough to handle the issues that being constantly accessible and visible to their school friends can bring. There is no let up from any bullying or friendship issues. The scope for nasty behaviour is massive. There are so, so many reasons I am against this. I’m trying to protect her from it I guess.

Anyway. It’s becoming increasingly obvious that she’s being left out due to lack of phone. There’s a lot of in jokes she doesnt get. A lot of chat she misses out on. Class meet ups (although her friends mum is quite good at texting me to ensure she’s included, but not all the time). The pressure to cave and let her have a phone is increasing. I don’t want her to be a pariah. I want her to fit in with her peers.

So what choice do I have? And yet, I don’t believe that I am wrong in my views about phones for kids.

I know. It’s a bit like understanding that the world is a mess and that life can be unfair though. We want to protect them from it, but all we can really do is make sure they’re equipped to deal with it.
Hopefully you’ve taught her brilliantly up to now, and when she gets her phone you’ll need to be super-involved and diligent to support her and its use. But you can’t change the world. You have to let her hop on, and then be there for her.

I feel you.
I have a daughter the same age and I've held out so far. She's going to have a brick for year 7 and then we'll keep assessing.
I don't want her to be sent snuff porn etc...thats what's happening in kids what's app groups..has everyone seen the other post about the 11 year old boy addicted to porn and sending sexually aggressive messages? Like WTF.
Yeah she will sometimes get left out or bullied about it. She can just blame me the lamest mum ever.
And yes of course she will see a level of crap on some others phones and I can't prevent that...but it won't be on something I've bought her.

I am buying her a dog instead (I got a dog when I was her age and it was the best thing to help me through my anxty teenage years).

I'm hoping it'll make up for the lack of smart phone a little. But if not at least she can moan to it about how annoying I am.

I hope she does remember in 20 years she was the last one to get one...because her mum gave that much of a shit about her safety and wellbeing.

I’m fully with you on this. As a teacher and a parent I’d advise all parents to read the anxious generation.
I do not think it is good parenting to give your Y6 child a phone.
But I completely understand the dilemma faced.

My daughter is Y4 and already starting to ask when she can get a phone. I’m hoping the tide turns and she isn’t the only one left out as I do feel I would then give in with an extremely locked down phone.

I hate that this is the world our children are growing up in, no escape from potential bullies, exposure to god knows what in these group chats.

It’s worth googling about ‘invite everyone’ WhatsApp groups which children are being added to and possibly exposed to dreadful content. Savvy parents will set controls I imagine but not most given what I’ve been hearing from school.

An amount of teachingaboit Joe to navigate might help them not send a nude

But no amount of teaching and parenting is going to prepare them to cope with seeing harrowing obscene content...or getting sent their mates nude.

DC1 (12) got a phone for their 11th birthday - seemed pretty standard for their class, so all their best friends actually didn't get on until several months later. We found a great Usborne book (Social Media survival guide) that we sat and went through with them and have put very strict rules in place.

1. We can check their phone at any time
2. We use Google family to set general screen time limits and individual app limits (1.5 hours daily total) and give permission which apps they can download
3. No social media, Tik Tok, unsupervised You Tube. Limited Google searches.
4. They have Whatsapp but are not allowed to join any whole class/year chats. Small friend groups only and we have limited the invite function
5. Limited games as they play the Switch/Xbox at home
6. They are allowed unlimited Spotify on our family account I also really like the location function if they're delayed for some reason coming home from school or out with friends.

So far (touch wood!) they've been very sensible with it. They do feel a bit left out when other kids talk about certain YouTube trends etc but say their close friends don't really care that they doesn't have access. I think as parents we just have to set firm boundaries and stick to them, be continuously vigilant and keep talking to them about things that come up/explaining why the restrictions are there. I'm absolutely sure more push back will start coming in the next couple of years but I think communication about the rules is the most important thing. If they ever get caught doing anything remotely inappropriate they are aware a brick phone is in their immediate future!

As you were going to get her one for secondary school, I would go ahead and get it now - its only 4 months away, so won't make a significant difference. It gives her a chance to get used to it and navigate the politics/dramas that unfortunately tend to come with it before she starts.

I think you’re on the right side of history with this one. Hold strong…

Secondary schools here have all banned smart phones due to all the issues caused.

It’s not four months. She’s in P6 (Scotland) so has another year.

You need to deal with the world your DD lives in not your ideal world.

Nowadays DC all have phones with WhatsApp etc. like it or not you are putting your DD at a disadvantage by standing out as different to her peers. She is already missing out on the in-jokes and it will only get worse. If her friend’s mum doesn’t keep her informed she will miss out on a lot.

This is the world she is growing up in and the key is to help her navigate it.

So she’s in our Y5. Yes, I’d say that’s too young tbh. End of Y6 (your P7) and going into secondary school is more reasonable.

I just want to say I appreciate your dilemma. A lot of people pretend phones, just because they're suddenly very common, aren't the danger they actually are for kids and their development. I'd try hold off to secondary to give a bit more maturity.

You can’t shelter her from everything though. My son had a phone at 13. (Which I do realise is two years older than your daughter). He did not have social media until he was around 15. I reserved the right to check his phone day or night without notice (and I did). You can put so many parental restrictions on. Just be vigilant, teach her how to use the internet/phone safely, no social media until you feel she’s responsible/mature enough for it, and CHECK HER PHONE regularly.

This is the world we live in now. The best thing you can do is teach your daughter how to navigate these situations instead of sheltering her from the inevitable.

If someone sends porn or something equally traumatic in the class WhatsApp group (which happens), she cannot unsee that. I can and will be vigilant but sadly not even parent is.

It's easier and safer to get in primary as you know the parents. You can monitor the phone usage, contact school or parents. By time they are in high school you are unlikely to know the parents.

We got phoned towards the end of primary for this reason only.

Check out the Smartphone Free Childhood group - you may find there’s one local to you which will provide a local network of parents with the same views as you and kids she can get to know who don’t have a smartphone too. The horrific damage they do to kids mental health is worth the fight against and the numbers are growing each year of parents not letting their kids be damaged by phones

Be a parent and say no.

This. WhatsApp is not just meet ups etc it’s access to literally anything one ‘friend’ might share. You successfully prevented her from being part of that bullying.

It's less likely to be something like that and more likely to be nasty behaviour around creating endless groups and making it clear to other less powerful girls that they're not part of them, kicking people out of groups. It's not very nice

No one is making you do anything so why are you annoyed.

You’re not wrong for your choices and the other parents are not wrong for theirs.

It is not a schools job to deal with what's happening in children's social media

I suppose its like when schools ask parents not to send their children in with very expensive clothing. Because it creates peer pressure.

It shouldn’t be but it is! It’s constantly affecting behaviour in school.

I’m always really sad now when I see the year 6’s in my kids’ primary school at home time. They all come out clutching a phone and walk down the street just staring at it. The kids from all the other years are chatting, laughing, playing as usual. It’s a stark contrast. Do we really have to accept turning our kids into phone zombies as inevitable just because other parents don’t think things through? I’ll be holding out for as long as possible.

My dd got a phone for her 10th birthday. I actually think it's easier at this age to be supporting her understand the risks, positives and etiquette than it would be at 13/14.

Just seen the thread on Parenting about the 11 year old boy. Case in point. Awful.