to feel annoyed about the phone situation?

[TheInternetNeverForgets]

My eldest daughter is 11.

She is without phone. She is literally the only girl in her class without one (fairly small school). She does have a smartwatch which she can use to message her close pals (although it doesn't use WhatsApp, just texts, so she’s not part of class WhatsApp or Snapchat etc) and that I can use to contact her when she’s out and about. She has no need for a phone. She hasn’t really asked for one up until now.

I really don’t agree with the use of smart phones for kids of that age. I don’t believe they are old/responsible enough to handle the issues that being constantly accessible and visible to their school friends can bring. There is no let up from any bullying or friendship issues. The scope for nasty behaviour is massive. There are so, so many reasons I am against this. I’m trying to protect her from it I guess.

Anyway. It’s becoming increasingly obvious that she’s being left out due to lack of phone. There’s a lot of in jokes she doesnt get. A lot of chat she misses out on. Class meet ups (although her friends mum is quite good at texting me to ensure she’s included, but not all the time). The pressure to cave and let her have a phone is increasing. I don’t want her to be a pariah. I want her to fit in with her peers.

So what choice do I have? And yet, I don’t believe that I am wrong in my views about phones for kids.

My sons in yr 5 and nearly all his year have phones and play on Xbox live. He struggles socially due to his autism and would be extremely vulnerable to bullying/harrassment and online grooming. I’m not getting him a phone yet but I suspect at some point it will become a necessary evil.

even if you get one the amount of use and the aps she has can still be on your terms.

Australia has just banned social media for under 16s, and they are in the process of banning phones from schools. I think it will happen in the UK eventually. Society has been so slow to catch up with this. I was actually amazed when I heard phones weren't even banned from classrooms. They are banned from most of the customer service jobs I do.

This ^

I agree with this.

I think the tide is changing and we’ll look back in 10 years on these blasé ‘just get her a phone’ comments with astonishment.

She is already subjected to that kind of thing. She goes to school with those girls and has to deal with them everyday. If they are like that on their phones, they will be like that off their phones.

Yes but she is not subjected to it after school without a phone, that’s the point. It’s a break, whereas with a phone they can have it 24/7.

When the kids realise it's a parents number they will stop using that chat and set up another one...

"Let them smoke and drink at home where you can supervise them and make sure they do it responsibly"

It's ridiculous? It's not black and white. You can take measures to limit the content on phones and you can talk about appropriate behaviour online. You can't do much about the effects of socially isolating your own child. You're swapping one problem for another. I don't know why people can't see it.

We live in 2025. We can't turn the clock back.

It's only socially isolating a child when their entire community are made up of children whose parents have naively abdicated responsibility and they are a stark minority. As phone and social media bans become more common, and they will, it won't be socially isolating. In fact, there will be a gulf between those who have developed in person social skills and those who did not. That'll be 2030

Again. It doesn't have to be all or nothing. There is a middle ground where your child can still access the social aspects with their real life friends and the educational stuff. It just requires a bit of effort on the parent's part.

I guess a lot of people would rather not be bothered and find it easier to just ban it outright.

I would echo at least one previous poster and suggest you all read ‘The Anxious Generation’. It is truly shocking what we are doing to our children’s brains, and our own.

I agree.

Nobody under 16 should have a smart phone. It's destroyed a generation of children, learn from it.

The tech bros in California don't let their own kids have social media and smart phones.

My parents did the "you don't need... It's much better for you..." ( not phones back then)
I got away with it, as I had a great bunch of friends, who would make sure I wasn't left out, but it made things worse for both my siblings who already struggled socially.

All the kids use what's app
It's how they chat
My dd had a friend who was about 14 and didn't have a phone it was really hard to keep her in the loop because stuff was being formed by everyone chipping in on chats eg let's go here! No we can't I've got blah what about xyz.

How easy it is for those without children or who have toddlers to say “just don’t give them a phone”. We tried - cue tears and social
isolation that was all our fault and the other parents thinking we were weirdos. Gave in.

We’ve done something like this for my 11 year old who’s heading to senior school in September. Except we got him a Balance phone (look them up, they’re brilliant). The interface is dead boring and its software prevents it from downloading any addictive apps (so no conversation about Snapchat, Insta or whatever- it’s just not possible). However it can have WhatsApp (I think
it’s important for him to be able to keep in touch with his peers, and this was the main reason we didn’t get him a completely “dumb phone”) and it also has useful stuff like Maps and a calculator, and it can run Spotify because he loves listening to his own music.

He’s had it a couple of months now, and the best thing I can say about it is that he’s not interested in it AT ALL. It’s constantly out of charge and he doesn’t know where it is half the time. It’s a tool, not a toy, and as he doesn’t really need it yet, he’s not using it.

As an aside, I don’t know if you’ve read The Anxious Generation by Jonathan Haidt? If not, I really recommend it. It will back up your views about smart phones and perhaps give you the support you need to stand firm. I genuinely believe quite a quick and powerful backlash has started against giving youngsters smartphones, and that within a few years it will be considered irresponsible and wrong. I hope so anyway.

My youngest is in year 4 and most of them have had phones for years! Mine has had a phone since year 3. It’s just the normal of 2025.
mind you all they do is ring each other to go on fortnite or play out. 😂

We gave our eldest a smartphone on her 11th birthday, September of year 6. This was mainly because we had moved to a new area and we thought it would be helpful in order to make friends at school. It was locked down and she could only use WhatsApp, no other social media. She is 13 now, and over the last couple of years we have opened up access to social media in a controlled way, with limits. However, I have seen all sorts on her phone over the last 2 years, from swearing, to nasty messages to porn memes being shared.
She mostly keep out of big group chats these days but she is always on her phone. She’s also clever and doesn’t follow rules so if there’s any way to get around the limits that we put on (and there are lots of hacks) she will find it. This is annoying because you think you’re doing everything possible to protect them but they can get around all of it. Snapchat is the worst, they send horrible voice messages to each other and then they disappear so there’s no evidence. If I could turn back time I would.

My youngest is in year 5 and many of her friends have got a phone already. I’ve heard of all sorts of trouble going on their WhatsApp groups and I’m glad that she’s not involved. In my mind I’m going to try and hold out longer before she gets a phone, but it’s so difficult when they are begging you because they are left out and feel like they’ve got no friends. I completely understand the dilemma and feel the same. All I can say is try and hold out as long as possible and especially with social media.

My son is one of two in his class who doesn't have a phone and he's P5 aged 9.
I see the addiction taking over in the other children and it scares the life out of me. The constant notifications and communications with others and I don't think it's healthy at all. Technology is ruining childhoods.
Probably have to cave in P7 unfortunately but would rather not!!

Haven't read all the responses, really surprised by the ones you got on the first page.
My DD is in year 6, lots of them don't have smartphones, including mine. My DD has a nokia that can text. She is accepting of it as I have explained my reasons. I'm not the only parent who has made this decision so it's easier, it must be very hard for you.
The research is clear. Social media and other children having unlimited access to your child is detrimental. The "it's 2025" brigade are copping out here and I understand why because once you've made the choice it's hard to go back and no one wants to hear they've made a damaging choice. Look up Jonathan Haidt's research on this and watch Swiped. I actually think the tide will turn and in 20 years out kids will be more, not less, understanding.
My 7 year old son is the only boy in his class who isn't on Fortnite and Roblox and I've had more push back from him but I'm an ex primary school teacher and trainee psychotherapist and you would not believe the fallout I have seen and have had shared with me in my professional life!

You are the parent and you can make whatever decisions you think are appropriate for your child. Unfortunately, you cannot make decisions about what other parents choose for their own children.

Navigating through differences between what your kids are allowed to do and what their peers are allowed to do has always been one of the challenges of parenting older children. Some parents will always be stricter than others, and inevitably, their kids will at some point push back on that. It's for the parents to decide whether to hold the original line or compromise.

Phones add another layer to these complexities, but it's an age-old problem in many ways. Ultimately, you need to balance your concerns about the phone against the likely impact of your dd not having a phone in terms of her relationships with her peers and also her relationship with you if she feels that your position is unreasonable.

Also, bear in mind that, even if you prevent her from having a phone herself, you won't be able to control what she sees on other people's phones. You just won't know what she has seen.

FWIW, I don't think you're at all unreasonable for not wanting her to have a phone when she is still at primary school. But none of us live in a vacuum so there will be other considerations to weigh up.