to feel annoyed about the phone situation?

[TheInternetNeverForgets]

My eldest daughter is 11.

She is without phone. She is literally the only girl in her class without one (fairly small school). She does have a smartwatch which she can use to message her close pals (although it doesn't use WhatsApp, just texts, so she’s not part of class WhatsApp or Snapchat etc) and that I can use to contact her when she’s out and about. She has no need for a phone. She hasn’t really asked for one up until now.

I really don’t agree with the use of smart phones for kids of that age. I don’t believe they are old/responsible enough to handle the issues that being constantly accessible and visible to their school friends can bring. There is no let up from any bullying or friendship issues. The scope for nasty behaviour is massive. There are so, so many reasons I am against this. I’m trying to protect her from it I guess.

Anyway. It’s becoming increasingly obvious that she’s being left out due to lack of phone. There’s a lot of in jokes she doesnt get. A lot of chat she misses out on. Class meet ups (although her friends mum is quite good at texting me to ensure she’s included, but not all the time). The pressure to cave and let her have a phone is increasing. I don’t want her to be a pariah. I want her to fit in with her peers.

So what choice do I have? And yet, I don’t believe that I am wrong in my views about phones for kids.

No child is the weird outsider for not having a phone. My dc at secondary doesn’t have a smartphone, he has a phone that he can text friends on. TBH the weird behaviour comes from the friends who are glued to their smartphones, quoting crap from TikTok.

If I were you tbh I'd secretly buy a phone now and start working privately on setting up parental controls ready for secondary. Also because then if you do want to you can allow her to use it earlier, heavily supervised. Soon when she starts going out more alone she might need Google maps, or bus apps, and better to have a tightly restricted phone all set up ready to hand over than to be doing it in a hurry. No social media, no web browsing, no app or play store.

Don't ever hand it over as an exciting present though. Don't even make it hers, make it just something she can sometimes use. Make it as boring and functional as a house key, with at some point some ability to text friends. There's no reason to allow her to install apps herself for years.

It's not all or nothing.

You're doing the right thing, hold on

You could get a phone then allow it say for 1 hour a night just to catch up with friends. I know people that have done this. Then phone is checked upon giving it back.
You can also get a screen share thing where you can see what is going on.

You can also speak to her about what constitutes the phone being taken away from her.
Rules such as no swearing, no bad mouthing people. No sharing pictures of your body, no posting on instagram/tiktok/. Any of this results in no phone anymore.

We gave our son phone in primary against my judgement but we managed to keep it very contained. We spoke a lot about what can happen, what we have seen happen (other children in the school causing issues), what the implications are of sharing online.

A big thing for me was to explain reguarly, that anything posted or text to a friend is then able to be shared onwards, screen shot and can be permanent. And to tell me what is going on, and that phine insoections can happen anytime I say.
My sons 12 now and he know if I say phone inspection, he hands it over immediately.

Her not having a phone won't stop her being the subject of someone's video though! Because they still have a phone.

Having a phone you can teach her how to safely use it including being aware of her surroundings when someone else is filming.

No. But she can come home from school and escape from it. It’s not being thrown in her face every evening and all weekend.

Make it as boring and functional as a house key, with at some point some ability to text friends.

This. It should be the same as the money we had for phones calls. It should make calls or send messages to friends. Everything else is toxic for children as far as I can see 🤷‍♀️

It's tough, OP, when you're the one swimming against the tide and your child feels like they’re the one paying the price. But I agree with others that you're on the right side of history.

I wonder if giving children unrestricted access to phones just because 'everyone else has one' will in future be viewed the same way we now see things like corporal punishment, casual drunk driving, or blaming rape victims for their clothing choices. All things society once accepted without question (or so the story goes, I'm sure there were many who didn't like it but went along with it because that's the way things were), but now finds shocking.

We’re only just beginning to understand the long-term effects of phone use on developing brains. Just as previous generations had to reckon with the damage caused by normalised racism or physical punishment, today’s parents are facing a similar reckoning with screens. What was once convenient is now concerning. And just like we wouldn’t dream of letting kids breathe secondhand smoke or ride in cars without seatbelts, we may soon recognise giving unrestricted phone access as a form of negligence.

There have been some really balanced takes here on how to introduce phones when the time feels right, and how to make sure kids are prepared for all the internet holds. Forewarned is forearmed, and having a supportive, switched-on parent to guide them will hopefully make all the difference whenever you decide is the time.

My concern with most things is that denying the thing makes the thing more desirable. So I have this constant worry that if I'm too locked down on stuff then when I relax then the results will be extreme. Trying to find the balance between my comfort levels and how the kids would like it to be. Bleugh parenting is a tough gig some days!!

She has a smart watch. She doesn’t need this.

But she will be well aware it happened I imagine, so she’s not protected from it. She may have even seen it through a friends phone. At this age you are in control of the phone, the times they use it, the apps they have, and you can talk them through such social situations and she can learn from it for when she is old enough to be going through it without your heavy involvement.

not saying it’s ideal, obviously these kids wouldn’t have phones but it might be helpful to flip the narrative and use these years to guide her. Get a basic phone, some good parent software to block things and try to keep an open conversation with her.

My DC were late primary/early secondary when smart phones were becoming “a thing”. About 10 years ago.
I rallied against them having phones and put it off as long as I could. Gave in eventually when they were about 11/14 ages.

Lots of sleepless nights over what they were seeing. Had to get DD’s school involved at one point as she was getting porn video links sent to her phone by a classmate (age 14). Horrifying. I bloody hate the internet and the shit our kids are exposed to.

But….DC are now mid/late 20s. Are wonderful adults with good morals and good careers. They can recognise scammers and fake internet/phone nonsense etc. they are realistic about todays world.

Not giving your child a phone is a bit like being King Canute - you cannot stop the tide. Better to teach your DV about the big wide world and give them the skills to navigate it xx

My 11 yr old Ds has a phone but no WhatsApp. He is in p7 and did not have one in p6. It was Xmas of p7 he got his. He doesn’t actually use it much and has very few apps enabled so it’s almost a brick phone.

I agree with your aims OP, but at some point you will probably find your dd needs a phone for something practical. (For one of mine it was a school trip to London where they went off on trains in small groups with no teachers.)

I'm not saying you should therefore just give her one now, but better by then to have already prepared your own locked-down version, ready to hand over, than to have no choice but to hastily hand over a new one. Yes there's a bit of a learning curve for you but it's worth it.

I'm certain one day parents will be able to buy phones that work like this out of the box, in the same way we buy calculators and lunch boxes. Basically devices that are just a bit more than smartwatches but still miles away from what adults use.

Mine didn’t have phones until they went to secondary school (one started sept 2023 and one sept 2024) and now they have them they have a lot of limits on them! iPhones are actually pretty good if you set the kids up with an iCloud account and link it to your account. Using the family settings on your iPhone you can set app time limits, downtime (where you can set all or some of the apps to become unavailable), they also have to ask permissions to get apps so you can heavily control what they can and can’t have and when they can have access!

No but you’re missing the point. I know I could restrict it etc. I know all this. It just irks me that I’m probably going to have to when I think it’s all a piece of bloody nonsense.

But you don't 'have to'. Just because it will be difficult doesn't mean you don't have a choice.

In primary half the year had phones, half did not. Its not a must have.
We did give our son a phone, with restrictions.
But loads of people didnt and they lived ro tell the tale.
My DH was the one that caved and gave dc an old one of his. I wouldnt have given my son one at all if it was just me deciding.
It worked out ok though and dc really only watches you tube on it and plays a few games which he can do this on a tablet anyway.
Boys dont reallt text that much though. Their chats look like this

Bro, play fortnite now
Kk
Invite Marko to the fortnite party
BRO
kK
Bro
Skibidi
BRO

😂

It is annoying, I agree, but it's partly just because of where we are in history. It's as if cigarettes and bicycles had started off being sold as one combined thing, and that was ok for adults, but then when kids wanted to ride bikes we had to let them start smoking too. So until they start selling kids bikes without the attached cigarettes we're stuck with making our own.

I don’t want to accept that. It’s not right.

Can you add the school/friends WhatsApp chat in your phone? Please dont install Snapchat for her - I was talking to another mom the other day who decided to install for herself first with her DD’s age and before you know it she was getting ads about only fans and other inappropriate websites.

I really agree with you. it’s v tough. My DD also year 6 will be the last in her year / group of friends to get a phone. There have been a couple of issues on the year 6 WhatsApp in terms of bullying and I have been so glad she’s not part of the group. One of her friends is pretty much addicted to tic toc.

We have however agreed that she can get one before the end of year 6 so that she can swap numbers with a couple of girls who are going to different schools. I am not thrilled about it and worry much more about her having a phone than I did with my DS.

We’re getting an iPhone so we can lock it down quite tightly. And she knows she won’t be allowed tick tock, snap chat or instagram. And we’ll add time limits etc and she knows we’ll be checking messages regularly. We also don’t allow phones in rooms over night and may not let her use it in her bedroom to start with. So we’ll do what we can but I’m so concerned about the potential impact on her mental health.

I wish they all just had brick phones until 15… maybe one day!

@TheInternetNeverForgets where I live the Smartphone Free Childhood movement is very popular, over half of parents at our school have signed. I can see this is a bit late for you unfortunately. I think it is really going to change things in our town in that at least half of kids won't have a phone until 14.

For what it’s worth the minimum age for WhatsApp, Instagram, TikTok and Snapchat is 13. I want to hold out to 16 too but DH thinks secondary school is fine. It makes me so sad. One of the schools near us is phone free and I’m hoping by the time my children reach secondary more will be. I spoke to a teacher friend about the changes in teaching in the last 25 years and she said phones were the biggest challenge for young people to navigate. There is SO much pressure. I hate having to make parenting decisions based on other people’s choices.

It's perfectly possibly to have a happy, popular kid at secondary school who doesn't have a smart phone, but you need to get your kid to buy into the positives of not having a phone, and you may need to work with the school to ensure they don't assume every kid has access to a smart phone (so far my kid's school has been very happy to amend processes to remove barriers to kids not having smart phones). Since your kid isn't going to be spending many hours a day on a phone if they don't have one, what do they get instead - (financial) support for lots of hobbies / family time / you keeping them stocked up with whatever reading matter they want? You need to be straight with your kid and explain your reasons for why you're not giving them a smart phone right now.

Look up smartphone free childhood. You are not the only parent who thinks this way. Around here there is a huge movement away from phones before 14 or 16, literally hundreds of parents have signed a pact. Smartphone free childhood would help you put across your opinion and reasons for it to other parents. It's so hard being the only child without one but there is another option other than give in!