Loud DC and unhappy neighbour. Would you move?

[YourMintReader]

I moved in 6 weeks ago. Within a week, the neighbour had complained about noise levels from 4.30am in the morning. First with a note through the door, the second time I got a phone call from Housing Association. Quickly resolved when I explained why.

Understandable, but there’s nothing I can do. This is from loud shouting and vocal stims.

She has now complained to the Housing Association that I am letting my son play out for hours on end, screaming. And has added he screams foul language. Quickly proven otherwise by me by emailing over countless documents that mention he doesn’t speak a word.

He does scream, happy and sad screams and different times. But I am absolutely not allowing him out ‘all day’

He goes to school 8am to 4pm return.

His weekend schedule is 4/4.30am - Awake. Downstairs around 5.30am latest. We might leave the house for about 9am. Possibly 2 hours of respite carers out the house for a couple of hours with them.

He would spend about 2 or 3 hours max a day in the garden. Inside no later than 6pm.

My neighbour has also got 2 children, 12 and 15. I have never heard from them but they’re older.

It’s a really small new build development and I think I and one other house are the only housing association tenants.

Would you look to move? I would be against it but cannot see a solution if it doesn’t stop. I can’t feel so worried in my own home.

Bloody awkward as there just isn’t many houses so you can’t blend in at all

You won’t like this - the best place for some children is in their bedroom making noise at 4am. The process of quietening them down can happen during that period, but it takes time.

The safest, most reasonable place for us to keep my DSs during the night - is in his room.

That is appropriate special needs parenting.

I don't know. How can I know what special equipment is available for schools?

Perhaps IABU in thinking that perhaps the liaison between parent and school leaves a little bit to be desired. Only the OP and the school know that. I cannot. I do think though that if they are containing DS, they should give advice about the neighbour problem.

If the DC does not behave so badly at school, they must be doing something to control his behaviour, and should say what that is.

I have not noticed if the OP has mentioned how her DC is managed at his special school. If he is the same there as he is at home, they can manage that as nothing I have read points to that.

They can, providing there are placements for him, send him to a residential special needs school. As he is still in day school, I am presuming that they are able to cope. I am asking if that is so, how do they do that?

The issue is his happy stimming, and the volume of that.

OP has said that he’s rarely angry, he has a lot of energy that comes out in sound.

If he’s happy at school (which I hope he is), they won’t be trying to manage that by making him sadder. They’ll also be accepting of his loudness, because they’re a special needs school and would see it as expression and communication.

We get notes like “very vocal today, which was lovely to see.”

He isn't behaving badly, he is stimming because he is severely disabled. Are babies badly behaved when they cry? It's the same thing. He has no understanding or intent, he can't talk but he stims which can be very, very vocal.

He will stim loudly at his special school too, they will be used to it if it is normal for him which it sounds like it is.

If he is happy at school, the more reason to discuss with the parent.

I know what the issue is. The OP has told us. What I and other posters do not know is why he screams so loudly. He also does to at the same time, and I suggested there might be a physical reason for it, and perhaps some scans might show something that he has been unable to communicate to his mum.

I don't know why posters are so dismissive of suggestions, when the reason for the thread is that the OP is at her wits end.

Surely the OP can read the responses and act on them as she feels fit.

Has anything I have said been wrong? Most of it is asking questions, and not giving advice, making suggestions, and not saying they MUST be tried.

Asking questions encouraging people to think about a situation that perhaps they have not previously considered.

What I do know is the OP is in a very traumatising position with the neighbour, and wants to know if she should - yet again - move house. My problem with that is that she will spend the rest of her and her DS's lives moving from one place to another and having the same misery, when perhaps there is a solution to it.

He screams loudly because he is stimming. Stimming is completely normal for some Autistic children and there isn't a physical reason for it.

You can't stop an Autistic child from stimming, especially a severely Autistic child who is non verbal with no understanding that other people don't like it when he screams loudly, especially at 4am.

My choice of words was wrong and I apologise for that. It was not intended to be taken as you have taken it. I was comparing the two locations and asking if the DC behaved the same in both. At the moment the neighbour is being aggressive towards the OP because that neighbour considers the child to be acting 'badly' by their standards, otherwise the OP would not have started the thread in the first place.

I think it is up to the OP to make comments like yours and others, not other posters, because only the OP has the knowledge to reply with.

It is like you overhearing something on a train and laying in to the person who said it because you didn't agree. NYB.

Of course I do not believe babies behave badly when they cry for normal reasons, like being changed and hungry, but I would want to look very closely at other reasons for their crying. When one of mine would not stop crying whatever I did, I stripped all his clothes off, leaving the mits until last (he was about two months old) and when I took it off, a loose thread was twisted around his finger which was red and swelling. If I had not done that, who knows what he would have suffered, Babies cannot tell you, and neither can special needs children who have no language. I always peruse an investigation when the reason is not evident.

I intended my post to be a comparison between home and school. The OP is at her wits end, trying to please the neighbour, who is complaining..

@llizzie You are getting confused and talking about allistic behaviours, or the behaviours of autistic children who are not severely non verbal. Yes, allistic children are usually only loud when they are unhappy or bored or distressed, or in pain; or when they are not taught to emotionally settle themselves, which is why this thread is full of naive people demanding to know why OP isn't 'dealing' with the noise her child is making; they are (wrongly) assuming he's unsettled or distressed or that he needs distraction.

OP, knows her son's condition and understands what happy stimming is. It hasn't occurred to any of the non experienced people on here that this is his natural state, and a sign of happiness. A sign that all is well. It has not occurred to them that he would need to be heavily drugged, or gagged, or made deeply unhappy in order to be quieted. For goodness sake, OP would be the first in line if there were a way to make her son quieter AND happier at 4.30 in the morning! Do you really think she hasn't ever thought of ways to do this, or asked countless medical professionals to explain to her his differences?

Yes, the problem of disturbing neighbours still needs dealing with, and moving won't do it because OP's noise issue will simply move with her. I hope the sound proofing idea will work because it's the one actionable thing that people on this thread have been able to suggest.

You don't seem to understand what stimming is. Other people are responding because they either have a severely autistic child themselves or they actually understand what stimming is.

You seem to think that OP's son is stimming because something is wrong so maybe crying wasn't the best example as babies generally tend to only cry when something is wrong but stimming is different. OP's son is a 'happy' stimmer so if he's happy, he will stim loudly and vocally. This is completely normal and doesn't mean that something is physically wrong with him.

He will stim just as much at his special school because that is how stimming works. They won't be able to stop it any more than OP could.

OP is getting an incredibly hard time on here. I think it's important for her to know that at least some people understand so no, I won't stop commenting.

I've been quite shocked by some of the comments on this thread. I think some people have absolutely no idea of how hard it is to have a significant impact on the behaviour of a child (or adult, for that matter) with such profound disabilities.

It's also clear that many don't realise how little choice about the type of property that people who need social housing have. It's hard to convince an HA or council that the property isn't suitable, and if people turn down a property that is considered suitable by the local authority, they have slim chance of getting another offer.

In an ideal world, the OP would live in a detached house on a large plot, well away from other houses. Unfortunately, you don't get many of those in social housing.

Well you said there was equipment at school and help to be had from school staff didn't you ? you said there was lots of equipment that could solve the issue which I didn't understand and implied you had experience in this area. Obviously you dont which is fine as most people don't but lots of people are throwing suggestions around with no real.understanding of reality.Schools are often v noisy and deal.with all the same issues. There is no magic wand to solve them, no formula to follow and all will be well.

And again suggesting residential care is naive. It is v hard to get funding for it to start with and places are incredibly hard to find and few and far between. And lots of parents don't want to send their children away even if it is an option. There have been some horrendous stories of abuse especially against non verbal children and adults who cannot speak up.for themselves

There are myriad scholarly and medical websites that offer behavioural modification techniques to replace loud vocal stimming with other activities. It is not inevitable that someone with autism who lives in close proximity to others have zero alternatives.

What happens at school when this occurs?

So is it just accepted then that this boy is going to go through life behaving in a manner that is disruptive and will be a massive turnoff to everyone other than his closest family?

I would have thought some effort to help him fir in with societal norms would be in his best interests.

and don't you think parents are trying all these things ? You have to have walked in the OPS shoes to understand. Some behaviour modification can alleviate some of the issues but when people become agitated or disregulated it is nigh on impossible to prevent all outbursts.
Nobody wants to live with challenging and disruptive behaviours do they ? Parents are trying 24 / 7 to contain them.
People with no.experience of this should have the good grace to stay quiet instead of trying to make parents like the OP feel worse.

If you had any experience in this area you would be entitled to make such dense comments.
As you don't I will just say you are talking crap and leave it at that.

Schools accept it and encourage it because it is a regulatory behaviour, as they should.

Vocalising is how some children communicate their wants and feelings.

Until they develop the language required to do that, shutting them up involves cutting off their expression. Which obviously isn’t what most people want to do.

Nonsense.

The default in our society is quiet enjoyment of one’s home. The person(s) breaching the quiet and disturbing the peace are the ones in the wrong and the ones that should be exerting themselves to seek a solution.

He is severely disabled. He has no concept of societial norms and no understanding to want to fit in.

He is 9 and enjoys shows aimed towards preschool children. He doesn't understand the concept of video games.

You can't teach a severely autistic child to fit in with societal norms.

Some children (and adults) don’t meet societal norms.

Some of them won’t speak, work, get A Levels, go to the toilet independently, communicate in the exact way you’d prefer.

Ours shouts at churches. He knows the word “CASTLEEEEEES,” but only if it’s a church. That’s hardly normal behaviour.

He throws his nappy on the floor sometimes. I don’t think throwing poo is normal behaviour either.

Some people aren’t your idea of normal.

Either get over that, or avoid them somehow. But that won’t be happening by them being hidden away.

Again, the actual experts out there offer myriad techniques to establish replacement behaviours that achieve the same end for the patient.

Someone screaming at 4:30am is communicating what, exactly? Couldn’t sign language convey whatever it is, just as well? Apparently it’s used quite often to help people with autism.

https://autismadvance.com/how-to-use-aba-to-reduce-screaming-behavior/

I'm very encouraged that you've found some sourced information to read. Best to actually read it though, before commenting. It shouldn't be many paragraphs before you've got a better gist of it.

That depends if the individual is capable of learning sign language. We’ve mastered “thank you” in Makaton so far. He’s 8.

Quick question - are you an expert?

If not, are you somehow more of an expert than people who actually live with and raise autistic children?

I’m hoping you see my point.

He has no understanding. He wouldn't be able to learn sign language.

ABA is very controversial and not all experts recommend it, in fact, some are incredibly against it.