I sort of know IABU, but would this bother you? Neighbours always in the garden.

[Newhomeandgarden]

DP and I bought and moved into our new house about 3 months ago. The garden was a big feature for us. The problem is that our next door neighbours clearly think so too - they’re always out in theirs and I mean always. The husband works from a home office at the bottom of the garden, the wife often brings her laptop out and works at the garden table, or else doing yoga on the grass or just sits there reading with a drink. It just makes me feel like they’re always just right there, lurking, and I feel really self-conscious when I sit in our garden and especially if DP and I have a conversation out there that they’re listening in on it. DP doesn’t want to rock the boat because they aren’t noisy or antisocial as such and we moved to get away from nightmare neighbours, but I’m just devastated that it looks like we’re going to end up in the same situation in what was meant to be our fresh start.

I know I can’t exactly ask them not to use their garden, but it just feels so unfair that I can’t relax in my own home because it’s like living next to a public park!

It would bother me if they were playing loud music. Otherwise just screen your garden so you can't see them
.

Put up your own, taller, fence alongside the current one. You’ll lose a few inches of garden but it could be more private.
Your attitude to garden usage is a little unusual though. It’s perfectly acceptable for them to be in the garden as much as they please. If they are not being noisy then they can camp out there 24 hours a day if they wish.
If they are reasonably quiet then there is nothing you can say or do to stop them using their own outside space. You simply cannot tell other people to go in just because you want to come out!

I’m fine with being polite and saying hello. To me that’s normal for neighbours but you don’t get up in each others business.

OP, I’ve lived in several different places (urban, small town, village, rural) in five countries on three continents, and I can assure that any ‘unspoken code’ of avoiding your own garden because your neighbours are in theirs is a figment of your imagination. And no one’s requiring you to be best friends with them, or to stop being ‘home birds’, just to calm the hell down about them existing quietly in their garden alongside yours, by discovering that they are just fellow human beings doing their thing.

This is absolutely batshit

The only unspoken code that exists is in your head. You will not find anyone, literally no-one, that has ever heard of such a code, let alone lived by it. Use your garden as much as you want, just as your neighbours can use theirs.

Your whole attitude about not making friends with your neighbours in case you fall out is also bizarre. You seem to have a really negative view of other people and it's not healthy.

I doubt very much you are their type of people either! Or anyone’s by the sound of it. The peaceful neighbours are just using their garden without a lot of noise etc (at least at the moment, but they are entitled to BBQS and gatherings etc). They can be friends with the other side, because they don’t have issues with neighbour friendships and what if they fall out.

You don’t want to see or speak to anyone, and I’ve never lived next to anyone where the unspoken rule is that you don’t go in your garden if they are in theirs.

You’ve not addressed why you can’t put a fence or plants up your side? You’ve not addressed if the lights etc were up prior to your arrival.

its all about your need to not have neighbours in their own garden, if you want to use yours. Which is frankly ridiculous.

You sound like nightmare neighbours, just goes to show that not all nightmare neighbours are noisy.

Let’s hope your new neighbours don’t have twins next year and children playing in the garden, what then?

Honestly, YABVU.

I can’t believe that these issues with being a “home bird” and only really mixing with your DH don’t cause issues in other areas of your life.

It needs to be addressed.

They won’t want to get up in yours, why would they?

Your so standoffish they’ll keep well away.

You’re not even polite to them,

You say you had 'nightmare' neighbours in your previous property?
You describe the current property as your fresh start, and that the garden was a big feature. So it's to be assumed from those two statements that your current garden is well enclosed and private, you obviously saw that as the 'big feature' thinking you'd be spared 'nightmare' neighbours.

Your description of your current neighbours being the same as your previous neighbours is very, very telling. The overwhelming exaggeration of them being like living next to a public park even more so.

You talk about not wanting to 'rock the boat'

OP, it's not your neighbours that are the problem. You seem to know your neighbours every move in their garden. It seems you are constantly looking out of your window watching, and seething that they're out there again reading books with a drink or doing yoga.

I guess you 'rocked the boat ' with your previous neighbours. I bet they were relieved when you moved.

Having had truly antisocial neighbours until recently I sympathise unreservedly with anyone with any hint of neighbour issues. But here I feel for your neighbours as you sound like a problem with your watching them and your unspoken code and your general attitude.

I mean this constructively, but don't carry on this strange behaviour - screen your garden and be grateful you have nice neighbours. You don't have to be best mates with them at all but be polite and cordial.

You really are over thinking things

Im lucky that I do have a detached house very rural. There are 10 houses in this hamlet, and we all know each other by name, and in the 20 years Ive lived here, Id say Ive been in just three of the houses - two of them for wakes

Yet we are all very friendly, we stop and chat if we are out the front . We help each other out, we share news, we keep an eye out for each other, we take each others bins in when holidays are taken, if someone is poorly we rally around, when the snow cuts us off we check on each other, when the power was out for 5 days, we ensured we all had torches/candles/ someway of heating water. We pop Christmas cards in, we will send cards on the birth of a new baby , we share plants, home grown veg - and that's the collective we, not just me and DH

That's being neighbourly - not living in each others pockets

Even when we lived in London in a terrace, where we had neighbours either side and behind, we had the same relationships - looked out for each other, but rarely in each others homes - I did use to feed the next door neighbour fish. But if we were in the garden and next door were in theirs the same time - we weren't having conversations through the fence - we respected each others privacy

OP, you will be forever waiting your turn to use your own garden, if you let this self-imposed, turn-taking rule live in your head any longer.

Use your garden whenever you want to, nobody thinks it’s bad manners to do so, so why restrict yourselves. There is no rota, no agreement, no unwritten rule that everybody is supposed to know about for good manners sake, so just go for it and get used to it before writing your neighbours off.

You and your DH do sound rather private/reclusive and that’s fine, but the norm is for people to be friendly, enquiring about each others lives, sharing their own experiences and finding mutual ground if there is any, on which to build a satisfactory neighbourly relationship -enough to make you feel settled at least.
If you really don’t want that kind of contact, then I don’t understand why you are upset that your current neighbour has managed to do just that with her neighbour on the other side.

You can’t make or expect your neighbours to be the same as you. ( maybe they are but you just haven’t bothered to find out yet) We are mostly all different which to my mind, makes life interesting. A good community is one where everybody feels settled, uncomplaining, not judged, and able to contribute just to the extent they are happy with.

If you are the sort of people to be polite and civil but stop at getting to know other people’s business then there’s nothing wrong with that at all. But do it with an open heart without feeling you need to please people or without feeling you have been left out or without feeling you don’t belong or without feeling guilty.

Whatever type you both are, I still feel, it’s best to not only be accepting of your more established neighbours, but to put yourself out of your comfort zone just a little bit to reach out to one or two of them in a friendly way to introduce yourselves.

You can’t really complain about them OP, if you don’t know about them and haven’t made some sort of effort and if they aren’t doing anything wrong.
You certainly can’t complain that they make you feel left out and unable to go into your garden if you are the one wanting to build barriers between you before you even try to establish a rapport.

If you are going to build a higher fence, then I think it’s right to talk to your neighbours about it first. It’s not as if they are being loud or overbearing other than that they exist and quietly use their garden. You are right that they might wonder why it’s necessary.

Being home birds is lovely OP but you are not going to be able to love your home with the attitude that your neighbours are selfish for using their garden too much and not giving you a turn to use yours.

@Newhomeandgarden "we lived places where it seemed there was an unspoken code that if you hear your neighbours are out in their garden eating lunch or whatever you respect their privacy and don’t go out at the same time. " Sorry OP, only in your head is this a thing. Are you seriously suggesting that if it was a lovely day and you'd planned to have lunch in your garden, but your neighbours got out there first, you'd eat indoors instead? This is ludicrous and I suspect all your neighbours were blissfully unaware of this "unspoken code".

OP, you are being so many different shades of unreasonable about this and it is very much a you problem. Your poor neighbours getting so much contempt for just quietly enjoying their garden in a normal way. Why does their existence mean you can’t use your garden?

I can assure you that there is no unspoken code about not setting foot on your own garden if your neighbours are out in theirs, that’s definitely in your head. Some people just go in their garden less than others.

you'd hate us. We sit in our garden a lot and have bbqs most weekends in the summer. I can only imagine your horror at how noisy our estate can be with kids playing in their gardens and out in the car park. Just imagine if you had a family with several kids next door. Give your poor quiet neighbours a break. Use your garden or don’t but this is your problem to over come. They have done nothing wrong.

I’ve asked DP to start looking into putting up a bigger fence on our side but I also worry that’s going to make them think we’re snobby and turn against us.

I don’t really want to be friends with neighbours

So you don’t want to be friends with your neighbours, but don’t want them to think you’re snobby either? Yet you won’t have a simple conversation to explain why you’re putting up a fence - just in case they take it as an overture to friendship…

What DO you want? As in something that might actually happen in the real world? What you really seem to want is for your neighbours to go back inside and never come out again - which clearly isn’t going to happen. Either that or you somehow expect them to be psychic and know that you don’t want them to be out there when you are - which isn’t reasonable. So you need to decide what practical, achievable outcome you want here.

Unwritten rule that only one person can use their garden at a time?

you are off your rocker - it’s not Benidorm where whoever gets up early puts their towels down on the sun lounger! Everyone is allowed to use their own private garden thankfully

There is absolutely no unspoken code that if your neighbours are in their garden you don’t go out in yours. That’s not a thing, except in your head.
You don’t want to be friends with them, but you also don’t want them to be friends with each other because it makes you feel left out? Can’t you see how unreasonable that is?

I said it earlier but to me it comes across as you having the markings of being a nightmare neighbour

it always stays with some silly little thing

It’s not the neighbours who are the problem here 🤣

You're getting a hard time on here but you ARE being unreasonable expecting people not to use their own gardens in the nice weather. I think you have to accept that most people see their gardens as you do as an extension of their living space so you'll be happier if you mitigate for that by planting some screening shrubs and maybe investing in some garden infrastructure that creates a bit more privacy. A pergola could do that for example without making it look like you're trying to put up metaphorical and physical barriers.

My love, there is no unwritten rule. As pp have said it's in your own head.
I have spent a lifetime noticing unwritten rules bacause I'm autistic. Do you think you might be too but also a little anxious.
Being home birds is another way of saying finding social situations difficult.
This is affecting your enjoyment of your life. I do think you should start with a trip to the GP. Because what you feel atm isn't normal.

This is affecting your enjoyment of your life. I do think you should start with a trip to the GP. Because what you feel atm isn't normal

^ This. The more I read the more I think you might need some professional help. I am so sorry this seems to tie you up in such knots you feel unable to use your own garden. This must be miserable for you personally. But this level of anxiety is not usual. Nor is there some unwritten code of conduct around the use of gardens, beyond normal statutory regulations around noise pollution after certain hours. Please do speak to someone about this, otherwise it will extend beyond just the use of your garden (if it hasn't already). And no amount of fencing, distance between neighbours, polite friendly chit chat or landscaped garden screening is going to make this better for you.

Look after yourself. Without doubt, this is a sad tale of which I suspect we are only seeing a tiny fraction. Be kind to yourself in the first instance and worry less about your neighbours right now.

It could be worse you could live next door to this

"Before we were in our old house with the bad neighbours, we lived places where it seemed there was an unspoken code that if you hear your neighbours are out in their garden eating lunch or whatever you respect their privacy and don’t go out at the same time."
"Unspoken"? Non-existent, more likely. I have seriously never heard of such a thing. You might have chose not to go out, but I suspect if your neighbours never appeared when you were in your garden it was because they were simply busy doing something else. Coincidences happen.

You don't want to be friends with your neighbours. But you don't want them to be friends with other neighbours either, because somehow that means they're all ganging up on you and don't want you and your DP there 'on their patch'. But also you don't want your neighbours to think you're snobby and turn against you.

Wow.

You're really building up these poor people into absolute monsters in your head, aren't you? And they haven't done a thing wrong. I bet most people would think they're dream neighbours, but everything they do is wrong as far as you're concerned. The woman 'just sits there reading with a drink', indeed, and even uses her laptop at her own table in her own garden. The horror, the horror.

If you and DP can't put up a higher fence on your side, buy some large pots and planters and large shrubs to go in them and put them around your seating area. You and the neighbours won't be able to see each other then. You've had some other ideas from PP too.

I also agree with PP that, kindly, this level of anxiety over people sitting outside in nice weather isn't normal, and perhaps you should talk to a professional about it.