DH threw a tantrum and so I'm taking a pause

[SaraG3018]

Hi all... first time posting on here but no idea what to do.

DD #1 is almost 6 and DD #2 is 6 months. DH has been really stepping up with DD1, kind of taking a kid each, since I had my second DD. At the same time he's had a tricky period and work and I can see he's more stressed.

However, it's been taking its toll on his patience. I often found him growling or yelling at DD1... it felt like though he'd never fully yell at her it was always raised voices and irrelevant threats and punishments. Just the opposite of all gentle parenting guidelines. I've tried to sort this with creating written house rules we both agreed on to help DD1's behaviour, thereby removing the need for arguments or silly uses of no screen time etc. It's kind of working, e.g. you won't pick up your toys ok we'll take this one away. Point to this is just flagging he's been emotional lately and I've been a bit concerned about the effect on DD1.

ANYWAY last night my sister, who just had a baby, asked us both on our WhatsApp group who took which nights with DD2. I laughed and told her I always do all nights, to which she jokingly said wow that's not fair. DH responded with a full tantrum. Excerpts from the tantrum include him saying 'what is maternity leave for, doing f all, am I to give birth then sit around doing f all while he looks after DD1 goes to work does chores and now is expected to also look after DD2 at night, did our mother not teach us anything, why don't I just f'ing marry my sister's husband if he's so perfect'... he stomped about literally kicking toys across the room. Speaking in this way isn't normal for him but in the early days of marriage ten years ago I did have to calm these sorts of outbursts during arguments. I thought he had mellowed out.

I didn't say a word on response to ask this but have quietly booked myself and the girls a hotel for a couple nights. He's going to come home tomorrow to an empty nest.

SO my question. I feel like i can't stand for this type of emotional un-regulation.. but for the kids' sake... should I? AIBU? Despite tonight and the bad moods with DD1 overall he's a very thoughtful and loving father to them. Am I overreacting?

He can't stop her coming back, any more than she could if the situation was reversed

This... With the proviso that she lets him know where she is and why... I don't blame her at all. Message in a calm non confrontational way that you are having a few nights away so that you both have some space. .

OP felt that the DH's behaviour was unbearable and didn't want to be around when he came back for round two

She's doing what OPs are always advised to do on MN... setting boundaries. Behave like that, treat our DD like that and there will be consequences. We won't want to be around you.

The OP didn't bring up the subject the SIL who's just had a new baby asked her... and OP told her truthfully... "I do all the night times." Should she have lied? She's not responsible for the SIL's jokey comment... and I do believe it was jokey "Wow that's not fair."

That should not be enough for the DH to have a bad tempered outburst at the OP. How many threads do we see where the poster has to put up with mean comments from inlaws and they are told not to react, they are over thinking it. It was a one off throw away comment and IT WAS TRUE.

It must have been bad if OP felt she had to get away. and its the clearest illustration to the DH that OP won't tolerate any more Shouting, Swearing, Kicking toys across the room, snark comments like didn't your mother teach you anything... Growling and raised voices at her little DD, criticising and punishing for small things. Note he said your mother.. not your Dad... their mother didn't teach either of her two daughters how to bring up children, and not to make their DH bear the brunt of parenting. FFS!!!!

It's not the first time he's behaved like this either. She says in the early days this was a problem, but that she's learnt to "manage" it and "calm" him down, and now its all come to a head. The OP is doing the work of managing and calming his bad temper.. so that she can live with it...but why is managing it down to her? He needs to sort himself out.

He needs to work on his anger management, parenting skills and generally not be a complete arse. They are both tired. Both stressed. Its true. Also true that OP does the nighttime duties and he's being asked to "help" with the older child when she's busy with the baby - and is doing a grudging resentful job of it from the sounds of it. Yes... OP is on maternity leave for the time being and so will have more time to devote to the DC... but she will soon be back at work and what if the lion's share will still falls to her and he still resents the bits and pieces he has to do? Is she supposed to cushion him from that too in case he flares up? I think he is training her not to expect too much and be grateful for what help she does get.

Hopefully this break will give them both a chance to think things through...and I hope the DH uses it wisely to do something about his bad temper.

"Most evenings after school pick up I'm cooking cleaning doing both bed times and bath times and not sitting down from 4 to 9pm then straight to bed so I can deal with the 2 hourly wakings DD2 is still doing."

How is the DH finding a new hobby to do in the evenings going to help at this point?

The OP didn't bring up the subject the SIL who's just had a new baby asked her... and OP told her truthfully... "I do all the night times." Should she have lied? She's not responsible for the SIL's jokey comment... and I do believe it was jokey "Wow that's not fair."

That should not be enough for the DH to have a bad tempered outburst at the OP.

You must be mad if you thought it was a joke.. 'wow, that's not fair' is CLEARLY not a joke, it was a criticism of OPs DH as a husband and a father and OP, obviously in agreement with her, just sat there and let her do it.. it's disgusting quite honestly. Do you really think all this has happened because of one comment, especially when he has been compared to SIL husband and how great he is.. then OP came out with this comment which proved it wasn't a joke and DH was right to be offended by the sudden gang up/pile on to him.

Sister did overstep but only because she's seen how this has taken its toll on me in recent months and is worried.

So she knows full well SIL overstepped, but instead of intervening, she used it as an opportunity to pile on which escalated into a row and now she wants to take his kids away as punishment for his reaction to their god awful behaviour.

I would have been very tempted to go and kick some of his toys all over the room.

How is answering a question 'piling on' DH? Did OP even get a chance to say something before he had his tantrum and started kicking things?

OP shouldn't have to intervene to prevent a tantrum from a grown man. Why couldn't he have discussed it like a grown up?

He has anger issues that he takes out on OP and if she isn't there, he growls at his poor DD instead. I wouldn't want to be around him right now either.

OP why is your six month old still waking every two hours in the night?

If he’s doing a lot at home and is stressed at work, I can see why he was upset with your sister’s comment. There have been times in my life I’ve felt unappreciated at home, overwhelmed with my workload, generally stressed and discontent, etc. So, I understand the surge of anger or frustration. But I’ve never stomped around yelling, kicking toys around and hurling hurtful words at my partner. I’ve found other ways to calm myself down and then talked about whatever it was. Your husband needs to find ways to articulate what’s bothering him, without explosions, like a proper adult. There are plenty of videos on youtube that may help him with de-stressing and de-escalation techniques.

Jesus Christ you all sound about 15. You're married, with kids. Sit down and talk to each other.

My thoughts exactly. Everyone is just so immature.
How is taking a 6 year old out of her home to sleep in an unfamiliar environment with her baby sister who doesn't sleep and a pissed off mother when she has school the next day going to help her? With none of her toys around her or her own bed. Just to prove a point. Selfish. His behaviour was bad and needs addressing, but by talking as the adults you claim you are. And your childish sister needs to butt out.

Disappearing with the kids in the night is quite a big deal OP. Unless you are on the run or worried for your safety that it’s quite a huge bomb to throw into your relationship.

it’s also extremely avoidant and not a way to communicate. It’s refusing to communicate.

it it might be better asking someone to watch the children for a few hours and sitting down having a proper discussion. It’s sounds like he is experiencing overwhelm and work stress and it has topped him over the edge.

maybe you also have different parenting styles and need to find a way to meet in the middle. Yours is not always the right way. And refusing to deal with conflict or disagreement is not a good example to set for your children or your relationship.

if you want to leave, then leave. But running away with the children to scare him
is not on.

I would suggest couples therapy and if that isn’t in the budget, then watch couples therapy and download some worksheets to do together

Because us women are responsible for making sure everything is done to accommodate our DHs silly!

Poor men can’t be expected to go to work and then parent afterwards, it’s impossible. They must also be allowed to nap on the couch of an evening and do whatever they want at the weekends. Us women must take on their share so they can get a nice little hobby to get them away from their awful family.

They are also allowed to lose their tempers whenever they want because…testosterone 🤷🏻‍♀️. If they do yell and shout at our family we must ask ourselves what we can do stop it happening again and examine our actions to identify what we allowed to happen that made him angry.

Come on ladies, do better!

I still don't understand what you are doing in the daytime when DD1 is at school so you therefore only have the baby? You also have a cleaner so while I agree it is not on for your husband to shout, I think he is under a lot of pressure to pay for things (you also didn't mention if you are going back to work any time soon). You have the day to do any food prep and make in bulk and freeze so again. I do feel some people like to make work for themselves.

Op is going back to work “soon” after having a hernia op her husband isn’t sympathetic about.

“Sister did overstep but only because she's seen how this has taken its toll on me in recent months and is worried. My whole family has seen me look more and more haggard with time and now on top of returning back to work soon it turns out I've had an umbilical hernia that needs surgery soon. Minimal empathy from DH about that news too btw. However I should have had his back a little more on that 'joke' and i will tell him as much.”

You don’t know what OP is doing in the day and are assuming like her asshat of a husband that maternity leave is an absolute breeze and she’s doing nothing all day. She’s running on no sleep, does the majority of care of both children, does the majority of things around the house and he seems to nap in the evenings and do as he pleases at the weekends on uninterrupted sleep. He’s got a job. Big wowsers…

Having read op’s update, i am somewhat unclear- those are two very different scenarios painted. I am more inclined to believe the first than the second. It is harder to give advice when the goalposts change quite a bit. One minute he stepped up, does lots round the house and most of the care for older DD and is a good dad (other than sometimes being growls or yelling- which was simultaneously not yelling- and when he failed to follow op’s rules he had to agree to written rules to be made). In the next post he does few household chores and spends very little time with his DD (though then mentions spending time together and him planing days out with her), when he is with her he is unpleasant and makes her cry every day….. I am not sure which is the accurate picture here (possibly somewhere in the middle).

Either way, I think you both need to sit and talk, and more importantly, listen to each other. For instance, clearly the way he behaved was not on- he should be able to express anger/frustration and/or hurt without shouting and kicking things (though we have all lost our temper and said or done things we regret- I know I have) and he needs to reflect on why this happened and take steps to address that. Though, I would say that in times of stress that people can (unintentionally) revert to old habits (which you say he had previously changed and this behaviour was now out of the norm for him- though you then said different in your second post, so perhaps not). If you aren’t happy with the family workload split, then you need to say so and not indirectly address it by way of your family WhatsApp messages, and then pretend your sister was “joking” when it was clearly no such thing- it’s a shitty way to behave and passive aggressive and no doubt your tacit agreement with your sisters criticism could be perceived as a bit of a pile on. To make matters worse, you then pretended it was all a bit of a jape, “just a joke, ha ha” -when it is obvious it was nothing of the sort- is unkind and likely just fanned the flames further. He sounds stressed, grumpy and not coping particularly well with his work/life balance, which it seems may be impact on his parenting (if your description in your second post is accurate). You sound somewhat rigid in your belief that your way is right/he is always in the wrong, as well as a little controlling and sanctimonious.

Your preferred way of parenting may not suit him- you shouldn’t try to enforce your way of doing things if they don’t work for him too, You may both be right- maybe he is too harsh and maybe you do coddle her too much. Neither is going to be great for your daughter. Find a way to work together, not all one person’s way but something that you can both agree on and carry out.

Abusive?? Jesus. There’s always one on mumsnet who leaps to say abuse when there’s no evidence of that whatsoever…

I must have missed that bit about the op.
I think some people on here are complete man bashers than men can't get anything right and it's perfectly fine for them to go out to work while mum sits at home with plenty of time to get stuff done. She has one child in school, and has a cleaner! The baby is her only responsibility during the day. She could nap then, maybe she does. As I said I am intrigued at what she is doing during these hours (and probably what her husband thinks).
Saying 'big wowsers' about men working (or anyone working) is daft. How else can they afford the home, the cleaner and to provide for the children? Maybe they could swap roles if easier but I think people always put down the person who works, but without them working then it could have been that the mum is back at work already (yes even if they are waiting for an operation).

I agree the husband shouldn't be shouting at anyone, but I wonder if it's just different parenting. She says he thinks he mollycoddles the eldest, while she thinks he shouts at her a lot. We have no idea whether DD is doing something that requires correcting and maybe dad is shouting at her because mum is being too soft, while she then is being extra nice because dad is too harsh!

Well you should look at this then:

https://imd.co.uk/family-and-children/can-a-parent-legally-abduct-their-own-child/

"A parent cannot legally abduct their own child. Even if the parent has custody of the child, they cannot take the child without the consent of the other parent or legal guardian. If a parent takes the child without the other parent’s consent, they may face criminal charges for child abduction.

In some cases, a parent may have a legitimate reason for taking the child, such as to protect the child from harm or to escape domestic violence. However, even in those cases, the parent must seek legal permission to take the child and cannot do so without the consent of the other parent or legal guardian."

You both sound emotionally immature and as bad as each other.

You were also a dick to him on the group chat abd owe him an apology.

OP is on maternity leave, she isn't and has no plans to be a SAHM. Should OP be kissing his feet because she might otherwise have to be back at work? She had his baby that I'm assuming he agreed to, of course he should be financially supporting her during this time and that's just the bare minimum of a decent guy.

Big wowsers I imagine is because many parents manage to work and not go around shouting at their children and kicking things around the house. It isn't difficult.

How was she a dick to him? She answered a question, that's all. If DH immediately kicked off, she likely didn't even get a chance to say anything after her sisters comment as he decided to have a tantrum and kick toys instead.

But your 5yr old is at school every day and you're on mat leave while your DH works full time. I don't see why you shouldn't be doing the bulk of the parenting and housework? Does your DH have an issue with hiring a cleaner? If not, then what's the issue there?

You give your sister an 'out' for having acted unreasonably, but not your DH for reacting to it? Not cool.

She said she laughed about it while saying she did all the nights. That equates to making fun of the situation, as though it was a joke to be shared.