DH threw a tantrum and so I'm taking a pause

[SaraG3018]

Hi all... first time posting on here but no idea what to do.

DD #1 is almost 6 and DD #2 is 6 months. DH has been really stepping up with DD1, kind of taking a kid each, since I had my second DD. At the same time he's had a tricky period and work and I can see he's more stressed.

However, it's been taking its toll on his patience. I often found him growling or yelling at DD1... it felt like though he'd never fully yell at her it was always raised voices and irrelevant threats and punishments. Just the opposite of all gentle parenting guidelines. I've tried to sort this with creating written house rules we both agreed on to help DD1's behaviour, thereby removing the need for arguments or silly uses of no screen time etc. It's kind of working, e.g. you won't pick up your toys ok we'll take this one away. Point to this is just flagging he's been emotional lately and I've been a bit concerned about the effect on DD1.

ANYWAY last night my sister, who just had a baby, asked us both on our WhatsApp group who took which nights with DD2. I laughed and told her I always do all nights, to which she jokingly said wow that's not fair. DH responded with a full tantrum. Excerpts from the tantrum include him saying 'what is maternity leave for, doing f all, am I to give birth then sit around doing f all while he looks after DD1 goes to work does chores and now is expected to also look after DD2 at night, did our mother not teach us anything, why don't I just f'ing marry my sister's husband if he's so perfect'... he stomped about literally kicking toys across the room. Speaking in this way isn't normal for him but in the early days of marriage ten years ago I did have to calm these sorts of outbursts during arguments. I thought he had mellowed out.

I didn't say a word on response to ask this but have quietly booked myself and the girls a hotel for a couple nights. He's going to come home tomorrow to an empty nest.

SO my question. I feel like i can't stand for this type of emotional un-regulation.. but for the kids' sake... should I? AIBU? Despite tonight and the bad moods with DD1 overall he's a very thoughtful and loving father to them. Am I overreacting?

“I did have to calm these sorts of outbursts during arguments…” should be “He had to calm these sorts of outbursts…”

Two issues… 1) he doesn’t get to take his frustration out on DD and he needs to sort that out immediately. 2) you both need to work on your communication. Difficult when there’s a baby in the mix, but he’s clearly resentful of having to be a parent (lovely) and thinks you do nothing all day so has little appreciation of what is involved in having a baby. You will no doubt either look after 2 children and take care of the house entirely or will go back to work and still do the majority of child/house work and he’ll probably still complain. The only way to stop your relationship being destroyed by domestic drudgery is to improve your communication. You’ll either resolve issues and still be together or you’ll realise that there’s nothing left to salvage and can move on with your lives without spending years in a ‘meh’ relationship!

I think having a new born baby is a stressful time. Cut each other a little bit of slack is all I’d say. It sounds like your sister was stirring the pot a bit, is she always this competitive ?

Perfectly put!

OP, IF you go to the hotel, you should message him to let him know that you are doing it to give you ALL a 'pause' (& tell him where you are)

I don't like the sound of him 'growling' at your 6 y/o at all. They will need lots of positive praise to adjust to the new sibling (& Mum's attention being elsewhere)
You need to be parenting seamlessly if possible.

Absolute rubbish.

This:

His yelling makes DD1 cry on an almost daily basis

And this:

He thinks I coddle her but I just don't yell, I use consequences but always with love. I hate seeing real big tears on her face all the time from being told off and I'm worried what it will do to her

Are absolutely unacceptable and needs to stop NOW.

He is damaging his daughter.

It is completely unhealthy for a child to be regularly made to cry from angry outbursts from their parent. When he’s shouting she will feel frightened, shame, inadequate and will learn that loving someone means you have to suffer the bad feelings in order to win their love. Blueprint for having dysfunctional relationships.

You don’t need to stop this, HE needs to stop it. your role is to highlight the issue then provide ways to help it stop. That may be giving him time away from the kids, getting temporary help in, doing absolutely everything to take the pressure off him (that will only work if he sorts himself out then jumps back into family life again) or it may be removing your daughter from the damage. I know there will be people saying “Don’t be ridiculous, everyone loses their temper….” Or “I was shouted ,didn’t do me any harm…” but they’re wrong. I was scared of my dad’s shouting and it has definitely influenced my relationships. Currently married to someone just like my dad who has shouted way too much at my DC and I will always regret that they were exposed to it. He thinks it’s totally normal as he grew up in a lovely middle class, abusive household. He was also damaged by his angry dad. I’ve dealt with it by doing everything with the kids that makes him shout so all bedtimes, mornings, baths etc. Everything. I wasn’t going to have children going to bed crying as they’d been shouted at. He recently announced that he’s not sure if he wants to get divorced as he doesn’t feel part of the family. He’s never joined in family life and when he did he shouted.

Being regularly shouted at by your parents breaks you. He needs to sort his shit out.

I’m amazed people feel sorry for him. Kicking toys and growling at your dd, he’s an abusive dickhead. I think he will enjoy his time without you and it wont have the desired effect.

I get it, obviously there are circumstances where you need support. I just think that sometimes women want men to help with night feeds as they want their partners to suffer in the same way. I just appreciated my partner not being sleep deprived. He was then able to help me in so many other ways because he had the energy. Support doesn’t just come through night feeds.

YABVU to just up and leave with no discussion or at least telling him what you are doing. That is an awful thing to do, worse than his “tantrum”- you are deliberately trying to worry and hurt him by “coming home to an empty nest”. I view that as emotional punishment and highly manipulative. I’d leave a partner who did that to me. Your behaviour is as bad, if not worse, than his if you do this.

YANBU to decide you don’t want to be with him anymore, or to take some time away because of issues you feel you cannot tolerate (only you can decide what you can tolerate within your relationship). But for all your sakes, tell him your plans and communicate. If you don’t, you are every bit as dysfunctional as you feel he is. The only caveat to that is if you are leaving without telling him as you fear he will harm you/he has been violent or abusive in the past. In which case, fair enough- but you have not mentioned it, so I assume not.

I think it sounds as though your DH is struggling with stress, possibly something more- have you actually talked to him about it and the fact you think it impacting on your relationship and his parenting? If not, you should before it got to this point and should definitely do so now. But also be prepared to listen to him with an open mind (not easy)- like everyone else, you probably aren’t a perfect partner or parent either, and perhaps he doesn’t feel you are being supportive, or there may be aspects of your behaviour he is hurt/irritated/annoyed by. Or maybe he does not entirely agree with your approach/written rules etc. of course, if that is the case he ought to have addressed that with you before now too. I guess I’m saying maybe neither of you are entirely right in your approach or behaviour.

If you feel you can’t support him with his problems, then I think you need to reflect on why. Is it deep down you could, but actually you want out? Is it that you just aren’t committed to him? Or are you just not able to because of your own emotional situation? I think if my DH was stressed (or anxious or depressed) and I was worried at his this was impacting his behaviour I would want to understand what was going on for him and see if there was something that could help (either by my actions or by seeking outside help if necessary). Obviously, there is a limit to what I would accept and if he refused to communicate or seek help if needed, then I would be looking at it in a different light, but you just seem quite detached and focused on everything you don’t like and that your rules/approach/way of doing things is right.

I would also say your sister needs to keep her opinions to herself. It doesn’t sound like you lack confidence or the ability to speak up for yourself, from what you’ve said (enforcing gentle parenting, written rules), so if you weren’t happy with your split of workload you could speak up. She gave an unwanted opinion which is no doubt hurtful and infuriating to your husband. Did you tell her as much, or did you play the martyr? He totally overreacted, admittedly, which is not ok- but perhaps this is the straw that broke the camels back.

Agreed.

Being around someone who is clearly just managing not to lose their temper is really stressful.

The growling thing is usually an expression of anger that comes just before the shouting and means he’s not controlling his temper.

Going against the grain here, but I find it very hard to have tons of sympathy. Women are expected to work, do chores, and do 90% of the childcare, and are told 'that's life'. Men act like they deserve a medal for doing the same.

And making your DD cry daily isn't a good look.

It also isn't your responsibility to regulate your partner's moods.

I dunno - you say your sister said 'jokingly' that it's not fair. How is that a joke? is sounds monre like she just said she thought it wasn't fair, no?

In which case I'm not surpised your DH was upset. Who wants their parenting criticised on a family Whatsapp?

I don;lt think your sister should have said that, tbh.

Well he now makes her cry daily in the op he's a great dad.

You are escalating this massively. Your sister is not helping things which are already problematic. Take some time and talk it through. Cancel the hotel.

You don’t seem to know what gentle parenting is.

I’m not a naturally gentle person, have a very quick temper and used GP from the start. I still lose my rag and shout. It’s a popular misconception that you never shout if you do GP, of course you do. It’s how you handle it that matters and that’s where GPO comes into play.

How did you feel when your mum was “releasing steam”? Did you laugh at such japes?

I think the fact he was upset was reasonable, it was how he acted. You can't just go around swearing and kicking things every time you are upset.

The OP still mentions growling and yelling at DD often, he's been 'emotional' lately and concern about the effect on DD as well as calling him a good dad after 'despite the bad moods towards DD'.

I feel like it is so common for OP's with DH's who aren't actually good dads to claim that they are.

Fair point.

Are we now really in the place where a man can regularly make his 6 year old daughter cry by shouting at her for being a totally normal child and everyone is telling his wife what she needs to do to make things easier for him?

Really?

He growls (barely controlled anger), shouts regularly, doesn’t do nights, has uninterrupted down time every evening and both weekend days/nights, has shown no sympathy for his wife who is about to have an additional surgery just before she goes back to work and OP is in the wrong?

Yes everyone loses their temper, but wandering about as a barely controlled ball of anger while not proactively parenting or doing chores is pretty pathetic. How is he not the problem?

ANYWAY last night my sister, who just had a baby, asked us both on our WhatsApp group who took which nights with DD2. I laughed and told her I always do all nights, to which she jokingly said wow that's not fair.

I'm not surprised he lost his rag at this point, where were YOU sticking up for him for everything that you say he does do.. in other words you have been complaining to your family and they are taking it upon themselves to tell him off on the group chat, while you look on, it is quite obvious to him what is happening and your lack of response to them doing it, is quite frankly, disgusting and proves you are not on his side at all, why are you all ganging up on him?

The gentle parenting thing needs looking at as well, I'm all for constructive discipline etc, calm measured approaches etc, but if gentle parenting is not working effectively (it often doesn't work as well as people think it does because children can think they can behave any way they like with no real consequence for their actions), then expecting him to parent YOUR way while he is doing 100% of her childcare (which is all the time according to you), is going to make him struggle trying to stick to your 'rules' (which he is) and more importantly your DD1 will struggle because of the mismatch in approach and confusion (which she is and results in tears).. it doesn't mean he needs to change his parenting style, it means he needs to have more freedom to parent her the way he wants to when she is with him. Me & DH parent our 4YO very differently, it really doesn't matter as children learn how they can and can't behave with each parent.. I really hope you don't pull him up in front of her but something tells me you might.

Then when he has the inevitable meltdown over all of the above, instead of talking things out, you threaten to take the children away as punishment.

You really need to look at yourself.

In relation to the comment that sparked his rage, I can only assume it was the straw which broke the camel’s back for him.
She’s not wrong though. It IS unfair. Being on maternity leave doesn’t mean you never need a night’s sleep. ( yes I know single parents, etc have to do it all, but OP is not in that position).
I doubt that he has worked 7 days a week for the last 6 months so he definitely should have been doing some of the night wakings, even if it’s only one day a week.
I have never been a daytime napper and can remember being dead on my feet due to night wakings. In fact the only thing which stopped me drop kicking the ‘you can sleep when the baby sleeps’ brigade was that I was too bloody knackered.
I do, however, think that taking both children away is an overreaction and won’t achieve anything, except possibly to teach him that having a tantrum means he gets golden time at home with no stresses.

My observations:

It sounds like it probably came across to him that you and your dsis were ganging up on him. Your dsis shouldn't have said what she said.

He sounds like a stroppy man child and highly irritating however you come across very sanctimonious and a bit neurotic tbh.

I don't agree that he should have to get up in the night if he's got to get up for work and you're on maternity leave.

For him to make the comment about your dsis's dh it seems you maybe talk about how he does this that and the other and he feels you are comparing them.

If my dh and his sibling had a discussion in front of me telling me what I should be doing and that what I'm currently doing is wrong I'd be mightily pissed off too and would've told my IL to keep her beak out.

Yes I do think to take your girls to a hotel would be a total overreaction and also seems quite manipulative ie. "Do/say something I don't like and il take the dc's away".

Him Shouting at and threatening your little one isn't ok.

That’s an awful thing to do op

hes working full time and as you said doing loads with the older child.

have you forgotten how stressful just work alone can be?
then add two kids and a wife to support into the mix.

no wonder he got pissed off.
and I’m a female yes and I’ve had children and worked so yes I remember them times.

instead of taking the kids away to a hotel why aren’t you having a calm conversation with him?

tell him his outburst wasn’t ok but also work together as a team ffs.

and like previous posters have said just because your sisters dh does night feeds means nothing.

it’s what worked for your household.

Your sister needs to butt the heck out of your marriage.
And you two need to sit down like the grown ups you both claim to be and sort this and set boundaries that you are both happy with. Not skulking off to hotels (you) and shouting (him). Grow up! You're parents now.

If you “go away for a few days” over this be prepared to not be allowed back and for him to divorce you. Imho your intended reaction right now is way, way over the top.

He’s stresed and has a temper and needs to sort that out. Maybe he should go part-time or get a hobby outside of the house some evenings?

What do you think is going to happen when you go back to work?

I think you are both stretched too thin and need to remind each other that you are team and not there to compete with each other who has it hardest or is the most tired.

You obviously need to speak to your husband and make it clear that you agree he needs time to relax and recover, working FT while having 2 kids is hard, and you don’t want to deny him that. Problem is you need it as well.

Also, it is important that you also make time for the two of you. Do you have family close that could maybe be with the kids for 1-2 h while you and husband have a quiet lunch at home with a quick nap together/ walk/ whatever you both enjoy?

If you don’t address this and communicate both of your needs with each other resentment is just gonna build and these issues will only get bigger.