Dad using individual ladies loo to change baby – what’s the etiquette?

[horchatatresleches]

We were at a small cafe we hadn’t visited before – just me, DH, and our baby DS. When DS needed changing, DH went to check the facilities but came back quickly saying the baby change was in the ladies so I changed him but it got me wondering about what is the etiquette.

The setup was one of those where the mens and women loos are both single-occupancy, self-contained rooms that open off the same hallway – not communal spaces with stalls. So it’s not like he’d be walking into a room with other women inside and making anyone uncomfortable. I’ve been to similar cafes where both loos are labelled gender-neutral, which seems simpler. Personally, I wouldn’t bat an eye if I saw a dad coming out of that kind of loo with a baby, but DH felt uncomfortable using the ladies even though there was no one else around. He wasn’t sure what he’d have done if I hadn’t been there to help.

Is there an etiquette about dads using the ladies in this kind of setup if that’s where the baby change is?
YANBU - he’s fine to use the baby change
YABU - he shouldn’t go in the ladies there

I just thought of something else…

I flew from Gatwick last week, travelling alone with my baby and was desperate for a wee whilst in the airport. Couldn’t take him into the ladies’ because the pram wouldn’t fit in the cubicle and I had no business using the accessible toilet, but the absolutely massive baby changing room had no toilet in it! It had an armchair but no actual toilet.

My options were:

• Leave my baby and pram with a stranger
• Carefully piss into a nappy!

I’ll let you guess what I chose to do…

Covered in previous response to you, but If you are really struggling over this, I suggest this whole conversation is a bit beyond you.

Of course he can change his daughter on the change table 😆 that's what it's for! Oh he has a Penis so is automatically a rapist pervert I forgot! 🤷

Gotta love the feminist idiots 😆 tangling themselves in knots to make everything a issue when it's not!

What was assigned to be the men’s loo was tiny. DH said it was one of those rooms where he felt like both his shoulders were touching a wall and his knees were against a door. Probably exaggerating there, but it was a tiny cafe and the change table barely fit in the womens. The only option this cafe has realistically (because significant building work to add an extra change table isn’t what I’d spend my money on as a small business owner) is to change the signs on the door. Either just the women’s (to make it ladies toilet and unisex baby change), swapping the current signs over so the baby change is in the men’s (which transfers the problem of the baby change being in an inaccessible space to women), or to have them both be gender neutral. I think @TempestTost is right that the owner probably just bought the men’s and women’s signs without much thought.

But while some people think that DH should campaign for this cafe to change that, it feels like a minor change to me, and some people on here wouldn’t that as a removal of women’s spaces.

What about little boys should they be made to avoid women’s changing rooms in case they see women naked for the same reason ? Or be protected from grown men peeing as well as? Men pee it’s a fact of life. Everyone pees.
adult men shouldn’t be in a women’s toilet full stop.

It’s single occupancy. It’s not a “female space” because there will only be one person in at a time. People need to get a grip and some perspective.

The toilets are single occupancy. They should be unisex.

You’re banging the drum for female spaces so loud, you’ve forgotten to listen to common sense here.

This! 👏👏👏

Morning all. I would like to apologise to @rainbowunicorn and @Catapultaway for being so rude to them yesterday - I charged in like a bull in a china shop, not reading what I was replying to properly, made a fool of myself, as they rightly pointed out, and was unjustifiably rude to them both.
I’m truly sorry, both of you.

The fundamental difference between men’s and women’s toilets is that a part of men’s toilets are open plan (urinals), whereas women’s toilets are all individual closed-off cubicles. This is the reason for my view. I think sometimes you see men’s toilets that only have cubicles, and in this case I would of course send my husband with the twins to the men’s toilet.

This. Coffee shop just need to take the m and f symbols off the two loos and indicate that one has baby change. Simples. Why is everything such a drama!?

Anyone of any gender can use it

I’m aware of the difference. But should little boys not be protected also from seeing strangers genitals by that token ? My dh brings my ds to the gents all the time regardless of whether or not there are urinals.

Women who need to adjust their headscarves are entitled to a private space without fear that a man with a child is going to barge in at any moment.

People usually come up with some bullshit stereotyping that men piss everywhere and all instal cameras to spy on women so that even single occupancy has to be single sex. It’s total horseshit and having grown up in a country where single occupancy unisex is the norm I genuinely think people should grow up. Also if you’ve ever cleaned female toilets you will know that women do equally disgusting things.

Many cafes have limited space so essentially have unisex loos, Often there is only one, so must do all comers including Trans.

Take him out of the pram and into the cubicle with you, seems the most obvious solution?

Like I’m saying, valid arguments on both sides of the debate. Somehow for me, walking a 2-3-4 year old daughter past urinating men seems very disturbing, to the extent that I think it trumps the right of a lady to adjust her headscarf. Walking a boy seems less disturbing.

The fact that you need to reduce your input to a childish attempt to be insulting proved you cant admit that you see that the design stage of the building process both Service Station and Coffee shop is based on the social context of baby changing is still seen as womens work.

If the design was not sexist any able man would be able to Q for the Service Stations mens and change his baby in his toilet area.

5 toilets :

4 unit in a block for ;
male able body

1 unit for:
wheelchair access for males and
wheelchair access for females and
female able body and
baby change

1 male with baby goes where?

And for others, realising a man has entered what should be a womans only space just after their 8yo daughter, who is going alone as she is out with an uncle or grandfather, is more disturbing.

i just think it’s an interesting view like I bring my ds who is 4 to the ladies changing rooms all the time at swimming pool. Is he exposed to naked women ? Probably sometimes. Would I go to the mens to avoid this happening ? No chance.

Obviously, the 8 year old able-bodied daughter should go to the toilet on her own. There if no valid reason for any man to enter with her.

@AnSolasThe male with a baby goes to where the baby change is in that scenario, if that is the only baby change. A ‘baby change’ sign denotes that is where anyone with a baby can change the baby, which is why the majority are in a space that either Men or Women can use, such as a self contained toilet / washroom. The fact that these are often also the accessible toilet is an issue, but it’s a different issue to the one being discussed here.

No idea why closed single toilets with sinks inside need to be male or female? Surely just toilet is suffice. I was at a restaurant at the weekend where they had 4 single contained toilets with sinks. Two female, two male. Queue huge for the female toilets and the two male ones were empty. Madness

But you said its OK for men to go with younger children. You are contradicting yourself now.

That is what you are telling your husband to do! Potentially enter with other children