Dad using individual ladies loo to change baby – what’s the etiquette?

[horchatatresleches]

We were at a small cafe we hadn’t visited before – just me, DH, and our baby DS. When DS needed changing, DH went to check the facilities but came back quickly saying the baby change was in the ladies so I changed him but it got me wondering about what is the etiquette.

The setup was one of those where the mens and women loos are both single-occupancy, self-contained rooms that open off the same hallway – not communal spaces with stalls. So it’s not like he’d be walking into a room with other women inside and making anyone uncomfortable. I’ve been to similar cafes where both loos are labelled gender-neutral, which seems simpler. Personally, I wouldn’t bat an eye if I saw a dad coming out of that kind of loo with a baby, but DH felt uncomfortable using the ladies even though there was no one else around. He wasn’t sure what he’d have done if I hadn’t been there to help.

Is there an etiquette about dads using the ladies in this kind of setup if that’s where the baby change is?
YANBU - he’s fine to use the baby change
YABU - he shouldn’t go in the ladies there

My view on this is that men need to get off their arses and campaign for appropriate facilities, as women and other minorities have done. In the meantime they need to change the baby on a park bench or on their laps, the way mothers do when there isn’t a convenient facility, it isn’t rocket science. There is NO reason good enough for a man to use a women’s toilet. It’s a hard boundary for good reason.

That isn’t going to happen though because this work is still unfairly distributed in society. Men can easily opt out of doing it with few consequences. There are a few men who do buck the trend and are the primary carers of children but to say well fuck them let’s give them nothing unless they campaign for it is both stupid and cruel. We need to create conditions where men caring for children is seen as normal. This includes having appropriate facilities for changing babies.

Also disabled people and women shouldn’t have had to campaign for facilities. They should have been given them - it should be common sense. To say that this is now the standard for being granted basic privileges is so shortsighted.

Sorry your being ridiculous. Two toilets side by side on the same corridor. Both have a toilet and a sink one includes a baby change facility. Can you give me one good reason why one toilet should be male and one female? Why can't both just have a sign saying "toilet"? As I said both next to each other on the same corridor.

Agree parents need to campaign for separate baby changing facilities in general, they shouldn't be inside any toilet male or female

I mean really they should provide separate baby change or baby change in both men's and women's loos. Having them just in the women's is very out dated but there should be no circumstances where he has to go into the women's loos to change a baby.

Anyone who has an issue with a father using the only baby change to change his baby is an utter moron. And the suggestions that he leaves the premises and uses a park bench? I mean what on earth.
Some people are totally nuts.

Spot on.

This was really gracious. It takes a lot to apologise so nicely.

Most loos in small cafes I’ve been to are unisex (with no changing facilities). But in your case I’d have no problem with it at all. I would point out to the cafe staff that there should be facilities in both or remove the male/female signs and make them gender neutral.

Over 20 years ago when my husband was the primary carer most frequently baby changing was within the ladies toilets - a fold down table in the open area of a communal ladies toilet. He just used to walk right in go to the table and do the necessary. Never had anyone complain but did have a few approving nods from older ladies as he clearly knew what he was doing which he found amusing. I stress this was long before men started using ladies facilities and it became a contentious issue. I suspect now he would probably be safer to ask the owner of the location where he should go.

It's not a woman's work by default. But if the only changing space is in the ladies, and the mother is there, i would expect the mother to do the changing. I would expect the same if the genders were switched (which of course will never happen!)

It's fine to use the ladies in this set up. If I saw him coming out of the ladies single toilet in this situation it would be obvious to me why he had been in there.

Oh the irony of you calling someone a 'twat' on the internet and simultaneously fiercely trying to occupy the moral high ground. You're embarrassing yourself here.

Private premises have no obligation to even provide baby changing facilities. They do, however, have a legal obligation to provide single sex spaces for women.

Also, how are 'babies and young children suffering', exactly? Is it because Dad may have to seek out a cafe that's better suited to his needs next time? Rather a luxury notion of suffering, don't you think?

They do, however, have a legal obligation to provide single sex spaces for women.

I think you’ll find they don’t, hence some cafes only having a single unisex loo.

What is their legal obligation to provide spaces for women please? Are you saying that the thousands of cafes and restaurants around the country who have unisex single occupancy toilets are in breach of the law? What about train companies? Are they also in breach seeing as the single occupancy toilets there are unisex? Planes?
Babies are suffering because there isn’t an adequate space for their nappies to be changed. Are you honestly saying the solution is that dads just shouldn’t go there with their kids? Because that is idiotic.

Exactly.

FFS - it's not a single, unisex 'loo', though, is it?! It's a female toilet. Therefore, the law dictates that it is for use by women.

Yes, tough shit. Dad doesn't take baby in that particular cafe because the facilities are inadequate to his needs.

Have you never had to make a similar judgement call with your own kids? I certainly have as a mother. Poor / non-existent changing facilities = try a different venue next time. I guess I had no real perception of my own suffering back then - thanks for enlightening me.

Are you not going to answer the question about where the legal obligation to provide single sex facilities is contained? Oh yeah because there isn’t one.
And obviously I am suggesting that in this cafe, the toilets should be unisex. Because otherwise fathers with young children won’t be able to change them. And no it’s not tough shit because public places shouldn’t exclude parents and carers. If it’s a toss up between providing adequate facilities for baby changing and some woman getting upset because a man might have used the toilet before she did (but does not have to share the toilet space with him in any way) then I know what I and most rational sensible people would prefer.

What are your concerns exactly ? What do you think is going to happen in the loo. Maybe a woman would have to wait 5 mins for a baby to be changed. Which they would have to do anyway if the wife changed the nappy? What is your point ? I understand if this was a communal loo but the not and whoever is in it is in there alone.

It is

very well done…i just run away and hide 😳

Your OP is wrong.

He wasn't using the ladies. He was using the changing area that happened to be in the ladies. That is down to the proprietors decisions based on limited space.

Just out of interest, where were the disabled loos ?

And my view on this is that you’re being ridiculous.

“Have you never had to make a similar judgement call with your own kids?”

No I can’t say I’ve ever been somewhere where the baby facilities are only geared towards the opposite gender.

No. They don’t have that legal obligation. You’re wrong and you’re making yourself look very silly.

It was a poorly typed response on my part. I was referencing the obligation to ensure that single sex spaces remain precisely that.

You knew this, however, and just wanted to call someone names on the internet. Go you.