To worry about neighbour’s baby

[maloney123]

I’m not sure where to start, but I am really quite worried about my neighbours’ baby. The other side of our semidetached is rented, and approx six months ago a new family moved in. The walls are paper thin so we can hear pretty much everything that goes on. There’s a dad, mum and what sounds like a young baby. The dad comes and goes, he usually goes out very early in the car and doesn’t come back all day. There is another car but that never moves. We’ve seen the dad a couple of times, but have only ever seen the mum twice, going into the house. We’ve never seen the baby. The blinds are always drawn and the back door is never opened, even though there’s a big garden. I’m on maternity leave so am often home or in and out picking my older child up from nursery, I bump into other neighbours from time to time but I’ve never the mum or baby. I’m not saying I watch the house or anything like that, I just think it’s really strange that I’ve never bumped into her or even seen the baby at all. Am I overthinking this? For what it’s worth, they appear to be Muslim (only mentioning because some Muslim men have certain views towards women). I just worry that something is not right and no authorities are aware of the baby. Oh, nobody ever comes to the house either. I don’t even know what I could do really or who I could contact. I don’t hear any mistreatment or anything like that, I just feel really uncomfortable with the situation and the thought that I could do something but haven’t

I have black-out blinds up from late March-late September.

I have seasonal affective disorder with spring-onset and just don't like the excess light or heat. and i'm an extreme introvert.

I'll take them down occasionally but usually very early in the morning as I get up at 4am then put them back up when it gets sunny. I also go out for walks very early so some of my neighbours probably think I never go out when I do, just a lot earlier than most people.

I wouldn't welcome neighbours knocking on my door to introduce themselves or have a nose to see if i'm okay in their opinion.

If I give you my pistachio baklava, can I have your walnut?

I agree. It's so patronising and reeks of " White saviour " . It's all about the giver (some of these suggestions) and not about the receiver. It just shows a staggering level of blissful ignorance towards other cultures.

I think there's a script. And its supposed to go like this :

"Oooh new neighbour. Different skin colour. Heard them speak a foreign language. Woman wears hijab. Likely Muslim. What an exciting opportunity to prove I'm really liberal and left wing . I'll pop round there with some food and a park invite, because I like those things, so I'll apply it to her , because I'm so not racist and we're basically all the same. I'll prove them nasty racist right wing bigots wrong "

Neighbour has a different set of cultural and kr religious practices which doesn't include social gatherings with non Muslim western neighbours and specific dietary requirements. Likes to be left alone to live her life on her terms.

Neighbour 1: well that didn't go as expected!!! I'm puzzled !!! Aaaand she never goes out without him. I know, I'll report to SS and HV and pop a load of leaflets on domestic abuse charities round. They can't possibly have different marriage roles to us.

Neighbour 2 : im oh so thankful! You're not like those other white bigots ! Lets do big lunches with all the family - you can post 'insta' pics of all my wild and 'exotic' foods and you with your arm draped round a brown person. You can screech on there how "vile " everyone else is whilst you're at it. We can skip along hand in hand and before you know it I'll be just like you, we'll do "wine nights in with the girls and slag off our hubbies whilst talking about EastEnders". And all because I was saved by a "white person".

Reminds me of the two motorcyclists who went to Iran, thinking all they needed to do was "listen to some local people's stories and snap a pic with their arm draped round them " all you need is #love.

People have cultural differences. Accept them. Be friendly, but "normal" friendly. Don't get over excited and cream your undies because your new neighbour is brown ! No need for well thought out culture specific gifts. It's so damn pushy and "look at me". Just be nice, and leave them alone unless invited into their lives !

No I’m not. I’m suggesting she should keep being friendly. Not pushy. Exactly as you say, passing the time of day. Though, you can’t easily do that with someone who never seems to leave their home. So, maybe the odd invite.

From OPs post, they moved in six months ago, still live there with the baby (presumably because OP hears the baby) and OP never sees her out and about or any visitors. Maybe she does go out, but she doesn’t appear to. She appears to be stuck at home with a baby, with no visitors.

That may be self-imposed. It may be because she’s very isolated and struggling.

And no, of course she wouldn’t break down and confess all. And no one should expect her to. But friendship has to start somewhere. Once we get to know and trust someone, and know they’re genuinely trustworthy, kind and caring, it can make it easier to confide in them. But they shouldn’t expect you to. You can be friends with someone without being interfering or pushy.

Why do you take friendliness and neighbourliness as pity or to seeking to gossip? We surely shouldn’t stop being neighbourly to people because we’re worried they think that. However, we all appear to agree that pushy isn’t desirable.

I think cultural differences play a part here definitely.

But there was a push in child protection which filtered down to the public years ago after some horrific cases like Baby P and Victoria Climbie where the idea was 'report, report any concerns you have, you might have the missing piece of a puzzle'.

Which backfired enormously like many of these spreading awareness campaigns, because people took it to heart like the OP, felt a personal responsibility and didn't understand what should or shouldn't be reported so CYPSS were overwhelmed with inappropriate referrals and children who were actually at risk were lost in the process.

MN hasn't moved on from that and I see so many occasions where people are encouraged to 'trust your gut. report, you might have the missing piece of a puzzle' when of course sometimes they might. But in the overwhelming majority of cases, they don't.

Same goes for all the MN report to 101 posts just because an OP feels anxious about something.

Add different cultures, religions, ND and mental health into the mix and the lack of understanding exacerbates the effect.

God how maddening for you that people can't imagine that you're doing it of your free will!! I'm so sorry people are so ignorant.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it actually the case that in Islam you have to choose the hijab of your own free will or it doesn't "count"? Because it's about your personal relationship with God?

Why does friendship have to start somewhere with someone who has expressed no desire to have a friendship at all?

Why can't you grasp that your approach is pushy as fuck? Telling op not to give up is ridiculous and suffocating.

Hey, yes, pretty much. No compulsion etc or else, well, what’s the point really. Sure, some people will be forced etc but yes, it’s frustrating when people think ‘ah yes, but you’re only doing because some man/you’re brainwashed etc. No. I’m doing it because I think it’s right. I’m currently catching up on some work (behind closed curtains even though the sun is shining). Hoping for some offerings of fruit baskets, cake and card and baklava right now :)

🤣🤣🤣

You forgot your handpicked garden flowers and the optional pat on the head !

Don't forget to bow gracefully and look at your Facebook feed to see you've been tagged into their black and white post of flowers and baklava left on your doorstep!

Don't get over excited and cream your undies because your new neighbour is brown !

Are you OK? Why be so base and bring race into it?

We all agree that being ‘normal friendly’ is the best approach.

But if a new family moved in next door to you, with a baby, and for six months you’d rarely seen the mother leave the house or have any visitors, would you just leave her alone? Or would you wonder if you should check she’s OK? Would you give her a knock and say hello as a fellow mum? Or would you turn the other cheek?

This family could well be British. But all over the world, neighbours are generally friendly and supportive, especially to new mothers. Nationality, ethnicity and religion can mean there are different ways of being a neighbour or new mum. But it’s mostly universal.

100% agree with your point about challenging ourselves on White Saviorism. And about treading the line between being friendly, neighbourly and caring against being pushy, interfering or gossipy. But it doesn’t have to be extreme.

No one’s saying she has to invite her over for ‘wine nights at the girls’. Or putting domestic abuse leaflets through the door. That’d be ridiculous. And as for taking photos and posting them online, that’d be awful.

Just try to be friends, especially if you’re both at home with a baby. What’s so terrible about that?

I'm very glad I don't live next door to the op, I often have my curtains closed and rarely go out. There's no baby here but she could hear one crying on the television - or worse - if house walls are thin.

All she needs to do is drop a friendly, welcoming note through the letter box and then leave it.

How do you know she has no desire for friendship? OP hasn’t even spoken to her once.

I meant don’t just pop round once then give up trying to be friendly. In my experience it really helped that my neighbours kept inviting me when I was living with a baby in a new country. They weren’t pushy, interfering or suffocating. They were polite, respectful and friendly. They chatted to me when they saw me and made a fuss of my baby and sometimes invited me in. Sometimes I went in, sometimes I didn’t. Sometimes I invited them in mine. But I was so grateful they kept asking me. We became friends because of it.

But I accept we all have different perceptions of what being friendly is. I’m not judging you. I’d appreciate that you don’t judge me.

It's not terrible. Just not wonderful either.

I think you're really over-estimating the idea that most cultures are really friendly with their neighbours, especially in the UK. There have been numerous studies about it, the decline of community and neighbour relationships and the impact on society.

You also don't seem to understand 'turn the other cheek' means as you've used it inappropriately in a situation which is not in any way connected to the biblical quote.

You're not wrong in wanting to be friends with a neighbour and others are not wrong in wanting to be left alone and for you to mind your own business.

The problem is, that people in the friends camp often judge people in the no thanks camp as being weird or something bad happening because they don't want your friendship, intervention or intrusion.

I have my front blinds closed all day. Upstairs as its the baby room, they go in there for naps, so i don't want blinding sun on their face when I'm trying to sneak them into the cot 😅 the kitchen, because the sun goes straight in there and reflects off the metal taps, i have a condition which causes hemiplegic migraines and my eyes don't adjust to light, and it's easier to draw curtains then walk around doing dishes with sunglasses on 😂
All other curtains are open but at the back of the house so I guess neighbours won't know. Our neighbour did that concern thing knocking on doors, doing the come for coffee then cancelling and the "are you coping?" And the pity face. I know she meant well, but she had 1+1 and made 24. I would explain the situation but the story she created obviously seemed far more appealing. All it did was make me anxious and stressed post partum, over analysing how I was coming across. Not one part of it I found helpful :/

Hi OP, Muslim here, you sound lovely being concerned about her and I would like to add a different perspective for you.

In some cultures a newborn and postpartum mother hardly leave the house due to fear of disease and illness - of course this is outdated and the fresh air would actually do mother and baby good but this might be why you hardly see her.

Also, if she wears a headscarf, she isn't going to wear it in her own home (most likely in more revealing/ comfortable clothes like leggings and vest for ease of breastfeeding) so the curtains will be shut.

I agree with the others, just knock and casually introduce yourself : )

It's great to see women checking on eachother x

But op never sees this woman, so if she were to go with your plan she would have to go to her house and drop off gifts and cards and issue the repeated invites.

I absolutely do judge anyone who thinks that level of intrusion into someone's life is acceptable.

You sound very judgemental, why are you so worried? Maybe she doesn't go out as she is a stay at home mum and her baby doesn't cry much as she attends to its needs straight away. She maybe doesn't have much friends or family and that's why no one comes round

OK, you don’t think it’s wonderful to be friends with a woman next door who also has a baby. I accept that. I accept other people don’t. They want to be alone.

We can agree to differ. I think it is wonderful and desirable. My nan was friends with her neighbours who had similar aged kids. So was my mum, who was new to the area, so it really helped her get to know people. So was I when my kids were babies, including in a new country. Popped around for a cup of tea. Picked up bits of shopping when needed. Looked after each others kids when needed. Knew we were there for each other if needed. When they were older, our kids played together. None of us are pushy. We’re friendly and supportive. We didn’t judge or interfere.

It can be so isolating being at home all day with a baby or toddler. If you’re friendly with the neighbours it’s easier to see people than making the effort to meet up with friends who live further away. I’ve always found it wonderfully supportive.

IMHO if we want to live in a friendly and supportive society and neighbourhood, we should be friendly with our neighbours.

But to each their own. No one’s wrong or right.

@SquashedMallow but we are in the west? We are in liberal democratic countries where equality is paramount?

I mean imagine I hate to use this example but two bare chested larger louts giving it large with cans of drinks in the middle of Saudi? They would be judged.

You do seem to think you're right though.

You said it's 'wonderful and desirable' and that if people want to live in a 'friendly and supportive society and neighbourhood, we should be friendly with out neighbours'

That's not 'each to their own, no one's wrong or right'. That's' i'll have to accept that not everyone agrees but i'm right and they're wrong'

Anyway well done op for your healthy curiosity, we should all have a little nosiness and be aware of our surroundings
Unfortunately too many children can be abused too easily and even then when neighbours have tried to raise alarms that has not been enough

But all we can do is be vigilant and try isn't it

We also hear of the vulnerability of women brought here from Asian countries when they cannot speak English. This can leave some extremely vulnerable, open to abuse and totally unaware of the rights afforded them here.

It’s my opinion. I don’t expect everyone to agree with it. Or think they’re wrong if they don’t.

We all have different opinions about lots of things. I accept that.

My point was if none of us are friendly with our neighbours, it won’t be a friendly neighbourhood. I accept that’s some people’s preference. I’m not saying they’re wrong to think it.

But I prefer to live in friendly neighbourhoods and, fortunately for me and my family, always have done. Living in an unfriendly neighbourhood would feel awful for me.

You do sound lovely.

But what i'm trying to say is that your idea of 'friendly' isn't the same as others.

My, and the idea of many is the dictionary definition of friendly which is 'kind and pleasant'. So i'm kind and pleasant to my neighbours. I don't make noise, I don't disturb anyone, I don't make a mess, I say hi if I see them in the street.

Your version of friendly goes beyond that where you want to knock on each others doors, have chats, take interest (or intrude) or other peoples lives, maybe spend time with each other and hang-out.

And that is going beyond the definition of 'friendly'. You can live in a 'friendly' neighbourhood which is just that people are considerate and polite.

Your version of 'friendly' is different but it doesn't mean that neighbourhoods where people are just considerate and polite are not friendly.

So you want op to insert herself into this woman's life, and keep going even when it's clear it isn't wanted, because its your preference?

I'm very glad you're not my neighbour. The ego on you is something else.