To worry about neighbour’s baby

[maloney123]

I’m not sure where to start, but I am really quite worried about my neighbours’ baby. The other side of our semidetached is rented, and approx six months ago a new family moved in. The walls are paper thin so we can hear pretty much everything that goes on. There’s a dad, mum and what sounds like a young baby. The dad comes and goes, he usually goes out very early in the car and doesn’t come back all day. There is another car but that never moves. We’ve seen the dad a couple of times, but have only ever seen the mum twice, going into the house. We’ve never seen the baby. The blinds are always drawn and the back door is never opened, even though there’s a big garden. I’m on maternity leave so am often home or in and out picking my older child up from nursery, I bump into other neighbours from time to time but I’ve never the mum or baby. I’m not saying I watch the house or anything like that, I just think it’s really strange that I’ve never bumped into her or even seen the baby at all. Am I overthinking this? For what it’s worth, they appear to be Muslim (only mentioning because some Muslim men have certain views towards women). I just worry that something is not right and no authorities are aware of the baby. Oh, nobody ever comes to the house either. I don’t even know what I could do really or who I could contact. I don’t hear any mistreatment or anything like that, I just feel really uncomfortable with the situation and the thought that I could do something but haven’t

But you didn't mention that ?

I have a neighbour sort of similar to yours. Except their daughter is a bit older, think around 1.5 years now. Never been to a baby group, park, soft play. Basically just stays at home.
I used to think it was strange and felt sorry for them both (mum and baby) because it’s the total opposite of how I live my life. Couldn’t imagine being stuck indoors I’d go crazy! But my neighbours just moved to the UK, well the wife has, husband was here for a while before. So you have to take that into consideration. I think she probably feels overwhelmed as everything is so unfamiliar for her. I wouldn’t jump to thinking “somethings wrong” I mean it could be yeah, but it could also not be and this is just the way they want to live their lives and what they feel most comfortable with.

Ahhhh makes so much sense. I deffo won’t knock then!

You’re weirdly invested in othering a woman about whom we know nothing other than that she almost never leaves the house. It’s possible she doesn’t want to socialise with non-Muslims, sure, but it’s equally possible she has PND, or is struggling.

I was going to suggest similar, my neighbour doesn't come out without her hijab, if you knock it takes a long time for her to answer unless one of the children are there.

We know a fair bit. They're Muslim presumably (as per op) and don't speak English, so not likely from a western culture.

I do work with a large amount of Muslims (mostly not UK born) and they are honest about not wishing to mix with non Muslims outside of work because it clashes with their culture and religious viewpoints.

It's very common for some women (particularly lesser educated) to be based more in the home. Men can take on more of a classic "protector" role and there is a more "traditional" view of how women should behave. It can include not interacting with males, especially non Muslims. I should imagine being inside the home with the curtains shut lessens the chance of this happening.

Knock and just say hello you noticed she has a baby and would she want to go for a walk some time/ or the park etc.

you could take some baklava if you do want to take food? But I would just knock and say hello

That’s not necessary. It’s only that she doesn’t want to cover her head all the time inside her own house. Most women who cover aren’t going to have an issue with throwing on a scarf to answer the door, though admittedly, it doesn’t sound as if this woman has many visitors…?

It’ll be cultural differences.
Also if you did knock, it’s unlikely she would answer the door, Muslim women never answer the door! But very nice and thoughtful of you OP 💐

I do work with a large amount of Muslims (mostly not UK born) and they are honest about not wishing to mix with non Muslims outside of work because it clashes with their culture and religious viewpoints.
This is really obvious with the children and a bit sad for them. I live in a multicultural area where all the children play, there is always water fights or a bouncy castles, football games, a new family moved in, their children would watch the other children playing, they've relaxed a little and allow them play occasionally, but you can tell the parents find it difficult.

You’re assuming a huge amount. The OP doesn’t know whether either of the couple speaks English, as presumably they speak their own language together. We have no idea of their level of education or observance. The woman has a young baby and could well be on maternity leave, just as the OP is.

Also, you have to factor in whether you inviting yourself into her life /on her doorstep may get her in to trouble with her husband (a lot of people have got their 'western' heads on)

My daughter made friends with a little girl a few years back who's parents were Turkish born Muslims (they were actually more liberal , as I've found Turkish Muslims can be generally). She didn't wear the hijab. Lived here 10+ years but 'couldnt speak English ' I know realise that this was her husband's way of ensuring she didn't 'mix' (her oldest daughter who was westernised told me this in so many words ) anyway, sweet lady, invited them to the park one day via her older daughter. It was lovely actually. When I suggested coming to our home/my daughter coming to hers , she told me (via daughter ) that wouldn't be possible as her husband wouldn't like English /non Muslim people at the house.

See western values= that's abuse.
Non western values = par for the course in a marriage

We just pretend otherwise.

This woman had bought up 4 lovely children, who were happy, intelligent and well adjusted. They were a credit to her and her husband actually.

I let it all slide as it was too much hard work. Especially being "not allowed" in an official capacity to mix

That's an absolutely true story.

I just get tired of the naiveté. This is how it is. Be it right or wrong

Yes my blinds are the same. Let lots of light in but protect privacy.
you said she seems to be Muslim, does she wear the Hijab? Women don’t usually wear one in their own home and that’s an extra reason she doesn’t want people to see in. And maybe she CBA to cover her hair just to go in the garden.

X post!

amazing how it’s turned from a worried about a baby thread into a Muslim bashing thread in two short pages. I work with loads of Muslim women and what the PP has posted is just so … not my experience. Muslim isn’t a hive mind with one way of thinking for fuck sake.

OP it’s totally fine to knock or leave Halal gifts on the doorstep with a note. Even these awfully backward Muslim ladies (ahem) will have iPhones with photo translation built in

I get tired of the casual elision between Islam and “not liberal”. There are a million different flavours of Islam and you can’t always tell what kind of Islam a person subscribes to because of how they look. I know many extremely liberal hijabis in the sense of being all about women’s rights.

This is interesting, I live in an area that sounds similar.
Some of the Muslim kids came into ours to play last week.
Their dad called around to get them for dinner time.
I saw their mum next day, getting the kids from school.
Said “hi, I’m Gowlett, DS mum” she smiled slightly & walked on.
Makes more of sense to me now that I’m reading this thread.

I have a very similar situation. We did see the mum once and we had only recently moved in so asked her about any playparks etc she recommends, and she said she didn't know she had never been to one. I've never seen their boy outside.

Typical naive lefty "Muslim bashing" that's a disgusting way to frame the truths of my extensive experience and knowledge. I don't remember prefixing it with "all". I stated information with truth in it. That's not bashing anybody. You're showing willful ignorance.

Now that you are aware of your tendency to take on other people's problems, you could consider how you can still be friendly/neighbourly w/o risking taking on too much.
e.g. in the event the woman and you become friends, but you don't want to start a close or intense friendship, you make sure you are only available say every fortnight for a cuppa. Or if you are worried she'll start knocking on your door too frequently, make sure you have some credible and reasonable ways to decline. Yeah...I know it's common on MN to just say it how it is, or not answer the door or make some bizarre reason, but it doesn't have to be that way. You can still set your boundaries and be kind.

@SquashedMallow ok, you do you. We won’t agree.

OP, You’re not wrong or intrusive to want to make contact. I hope your neighbour and their baby are ok. It’s good you care enough to ask here x

This has been really really interesting, thank you everyone. I genuinely was clueless about the cultural aspect, I’ve only ever met pretty liberal Muslims, so it’s really useful to get that insight. I was worrying about people trafficking or something like that! I feel a lot better now (and wasn’t trying to start any kind of bashing thread at all x

Ok, keep throwing the wild cards in there. I made no judgement. I related truths (which won't fit ALL of said group ) but a sizeable and realistic portion of non-uk born Muslims . That is not racist or discriminatory. But ok, let poor OP bulldoze in there with her western ways - I'll wait for the update. I could pretend the culture likely plays no part. But , it seems people like yourself don't like reality and the giving of actual experiences and will just shut it down with name calling and accusations.

That’s your experience. It isn’t mine.

I work in Leicester and have made many muslim friends who are devout. I’ve been invited to many weddings, parties, dinners etc with my DD and we are always sharing food. Yes there are cultural differences that sometimes come in to play that impact on what we do (eg they won’t do swimming and some sports) but I have always been welcomed. I’ve also got a similar number of Sikh and Hindu friends and colleagues.

I struggle a bit with the niqab wearing as I find it really hard to hold a conversation with someone when I can’t see their face (or be entirely sure who I’m talking to sometimes when you don’t know them well) but the majority aren’t wearing it, just hijab which is easier.

@maloney123 I think it is fine to find a way to introduce yourself and see how it goes. But ultimately if you have a hunch of a safeguarding concern just make a report to
social services as you would do with anyone. No need to overthink it. It’s really wrong when people use cultural differences to not report things, that’s how awful things are allowed to happen in plain sight.

Go with your gut OP.There is a baby in there so you can't be too careful.Clearly you've got a bad feeling.
I think, attempt to knock and think of a reason, if she doesn't answer or is very offish and reluctant to talke/gives you a sense that she is hiding something, I would contact the health visiting team like others have said.Social care wouldn't do anything without a significant concern of abuse or neglect.
We all have a duty of care to the children around us, you are right to be vigilant.