Crime statistics by country of origin

[Zebedee999]

The government is proposing to publish crime statistics by country of origin.

A few weeks ago I mentioned some statistics from other European countries (and in fact the UK) showing that sex crimes against women by men of certain countries are 40 times those of the indigenous British. I got called racist (the stats are by country not race) and of course the stats were removed as racist.

Personally I think women's safety should be the overriding priority and such statistics should be used as part of a process to determine who can move to the UK. Why allow in men who statistically will carry out 40 times the sex crimes of the indigenous population? Let in women by all means.

I am genuinely interested why my view is racist when to me it is simply prioritising women's safety. AIBU to want immigration processes to prioritise women's safety?

Actually you've just changed my mind - no men should be allowed in the country. What would be an appropriate age to start shipping them out? 16/17?

Men and? I thought men were people..

You think that changing asylum policy to favour women/girls is somehow preposterous? I think responses such as yours show how deeply ingrained misogyny is in thinking of asylum and the current asylum regime. Everything is seen very much through the male experience of war and oppression and the male experience of seeking asylum.

i think that we should be moving to allow for asylum applicaroons at refugee camps by women and girls and fly them in.

with respect to men - it’s not just about denying applications - there are other possible interventions.

but if you want to have a read about the harrowing stories of what happened in cologne you are kidding yourself if you think there are not very real issues bringing typically young men from cultures with poor attitudes to women who are often deeply traumatised into Britain. I can have sympathy for them whilst still prioritising the safety of women and girls.

I wouldn’t be advocating for measures against women and girls from those countries unless the evidence showed that they
were also significantly more likely to commit sexual violence. Which I would be very surprised about

Unless those statistics control for demographic they're not very meaningful.

But out of interest, would you refuse to employ a British West Indian male because they come from a group that's over represented in criminal statistics in the UK? Just to keep your other employees safe? Are you arguing that employers are justified in doing this? Because you seem to be making a case for this type of profiling and discrimination.

@2024onwardsandup The reason people are against the small boats is because we're 'full up'. You want to send flights to war zones and ship people in.

How much will that cost and where will they stay? People are complaining about the cost of housing asylum seekers. They need to be processed and supported during that process. Some may be pregnant.

Today there was an article about female asylum seekers being forced into sex work because they don't have enough money to feed their children. So we should probably up their money as well.

How is that going to work?

If you rad my comments I’ve set out my position on this quite clearly

Trying to get my head around people arguing FOR the men who view women as inferior and there to be abused given half the chance instead of for women and girls. My god.

@2024onwardsandup

Don’t worry, those that are not trying to twist your words and concerns can see exactly what you’re saying which is very reasonable.

Which men are you referring to? Any man from a Muslim majority country? Korean men? Who?

Which men are you referring to? Any man from a Muslim majority country? Korean men? Who?

Why are you so determined to import rapists and abusers of women? Is it just to prove some sort of anti-racist credentials?

@Sabire9

nice try, so predictable

ANY man that abuses women in any way, wherever he is from. It is a huge concern to most women if not yourself

Would be interested to know the stats on the nationalities of NHS workers . Going to look it up.

My husband’s life was recently saved by Asian and Bulgarian consultants. He was cared for after surgery by predominantly Filipino and other Asian nurses.

I for one am immensely grateful that those people are willing to live here and contribute to uk society in such a meaningful way,

as an example, Statistics from Denmark show that a significantly higher percentage of violent rapes are committed by men who weren’t born in Denmark.

if the same sort of trend is true in Britain. This seems important to know.

is your concern is @Sabire9 that this may be because of factors such as poverty, trauma etc?

i have no doubt that these would be factors. And I can feel very sorry for those men - and still say that women and girls in Britain should not have the suffer the consequences of these men’s own suffering.

but I also don’t actually feel that sorry for rapists regardless of their back stories.

I'm the same, in my darkest hours I've been cared for by people from all over the world. We should be very grateful.

I just don't believe that anyone should be held responsible for crimes they haven't committed, because of the ethnic or national group they belong to.

I believe everyone is equal under the law.

would they be being “held accountable”? They may be having their choices limited - which is a very differ t thing.

if you look at what the Danes are doing there are lots of different ways of dealing with this. They’re not throwing all foreign men in jail as soon as they enter the country.

Are all men in Britain are “held accountable” when they are excluded from female only spaces? No - they have some choices limited because women’s safety is prioritized - and this is because of the actions of men at a group level rather than individuals. That is a more applicable analogy in my opinion.

And people who are not citizens of Britain are quite clearly not equal under the law when it comes to having the right to live in the UK.

They're equal under international law when it comes to claiming asylum.

@2024onwardsandup

"but I also don’t actually feel that sorry for rapists regardless of their back stories."

Nobody's asking you to.

My argument is that anyone applying for asylum should have an equal right to be heard and granted asylum on the merits of their claim, with no recourse to racial or national profiling.

Oh god we’ve had pages going through that. In summary - UK and international laws can be changed. Something being the status who is not - in itself - an argument for it staying so. Which is not to say that any such changes would not be a confident thing to do.

but in any case at the moment the government is looking at changing visa rules because of their flow on to asylum claims. Asylum regimes are not un changeable. The safe country rule changes are a big example of this.

I'm not sure why you bother taking part in a discussion if you don't want to take on board anything discussed.

You're still talking about changing the law to discriminate despite being told it's not possible.

It's also strange that you have chosen Denmark as an example given their problematic attitude to VAWAG. It seems to indicate that your primary concern is keeping certain nationalities out, rather than VAWAG.

I understand why that seems like a fair position.

But I think that the fairness to that individual should be balanced against the fairness of the impact on British women and girls.

it requires accepting the probability of offences on the basis of the statistical evidence of offending patterns of men at a group level.

which I would accept.

it also requires accepting that to stop some incidents of sexual violence against British women and girls there will be some unfair outcomes for individual men.

i would also accept that. I feel sorry for those men. But I do not think they are more important than the women and girls.

@Sabire9

It’d be great if you were as concerned for women’s and girls rights not to be raped and abused as much as you’re so very worried about the rights of men, regardless of their intentions, to be allowed to enter the UK

@MiloMinderbinder925 I’m not taking on board what you’re saying because it’s so breathtakingly stupid.

but for the millionth time, for the avoidance of all doubt, the law can be changed to descriminate in this way. You may not agree that it SHOULD be, but that does not mean that it can’t be.