Crime statistics by country of origin

[Zebedee999]

The government is proposing to publish crime statistics by country of origin.

A few weeks ago I mentioned some statistics from other European countries (and in fact the UK) showing that sex crimes against women by men of certain countries are 40 times those of the indigenous British. I got called racist (the stats are by country not race) and of course the stats were removed as racist.

Personally I think women's safety should be the overriding priority and such statistics should be used as part of a process to determine who can move to the UK. Why allow in men who statistically will carry out 40 times the sex crimes of the indigenous population? Let in women by all means.

I am genuinely interested why my view is racist when to me it is simply prioritising women's safety. AIBU to want immigration processes to prioritise women's safety?

What do you mean by a claim, the names of new born babies are facts and are available to anyone to look up

I just googled it and an MN link was one of the top 5 results and within it a link to the ONS

Anyone claiming something different to the facts can be easily corrected

More bad faith nonsense.

You know that no one is saying that people from other countries are ‘genetically’ pre-disposed to crime. You are trying to suggest that anyone who opposes mass uncontrolled immigration is somehow into eugenics. It’s such a poor attempt that it’s funny.

People from some countries are culturally pre-disposed to treat other people in a certain way, which at a certain level crosses into crime, therefore stats from other European countries show that men from
certain countries are over represented in sexual crimes.

The issue with publishing data about those convicted is it's only part of the story. If the number of, for example, Nigerian men convicted of a crime is disproportionate does that mean they are committing that crime at a higher rate, or does it mean crimes committed by Nigerian men are reported at a higher rate? Investigated more thoroughly? Nigerian men are more likely to be found guilty in court?

The data about convictions is only truly meaningful if you have absolute faith that racism and bias doesn't play a part anywhere else in the system. That men from minority groups who commit a crime have the same chance of being convicted as White British men.

And even if you did have that faith you'd then have to adjust for other factors which are known to contribute to crime rates. E.g deprivation, are Nigerian men convicted more often because they are Nigerian, or because they're more likely to be living in areas of deprivation where crimes are committed more frequently across ethnicity groups?

You can use that argument about any crime though.

For example men are more likely to be convicted of violent offences than women. Now you'd argue that maybe that is because men are more likely to be investigated and prosecuted blah blah blah. Yes there will be some miscarriages but broadly speaking statistics will be based on the facts. If someone then wants to study if the stats are disproportionate due to other factors then let them present their evidence. But the starting points is to get facts out there then throw stones at them with supporting evidence. To date no government has had the nerve to publish them for whatever reason.

Anyway I like stats, I have always thought you cannot manage an issue if you do not measure it. So many seem scared of stats that will show women's safety is being harmed (or at lest that is what the stats show elsewhere in Europe), but racist apparently to state this should be looked at for the benefit of women's safety.

you somehow say that people are the product of their environment but that it’s problematic to link where someone is from to criminal behaviour. makes no sense.

You know that nobody is suggesting anything about genetics here, but about culture. I suspect that you want to censor data because you suspect it will paint a picture that is at odds with your ideology.

Actually, the data might well show that people from certain countries are LESS likely than their british-born counterparts in poor areas to commit crimes.

The government (of whichever party) don’t care if British women and girls are raped on their own soil by foreign nationals they’ve shipped in from abroad.

The refusal to hold a public enquiry into the Pakistani child rape gangs makes that glaringly obvious. This went on for over 20 years, and is still going on now. was known about by police and government agencies and was brushed under the carpet.

Successive governments would rather we were constantly sidetracked in the tension and chaos of the ‘multicultural’ society they created without our permission, and against our will, so we don’t focus on their corruption, pillage and sacking of our once great country.

That's a completely different thing from "indigenous". Your thread title is a bit misleading!

Why can't we be indigenous British when we seem to be allowed to have indigenous people in lots of other nations? To only call people in other countries "indigenous " seems a bit of a racist approach?

Because indigenous British men vastly outnumber men from any other country so still carry out the majority of crimes, in Britain. So if you are a victim of a crime the perpetrator is probably British. How many generations back would you want your stats to go?

Who are you replying to? The OP?

I’m not trying to suggest anything, I think that you’re trying to take an opposing view and moulding it to fit your own.

I wouldn’t be opposed to, for example, linking prosecution services data across Europe so that all crimes flag up upon entry to any country, and if the crime is deemed serious enough (which sexual offences is), that person is invited for questioning at the border and then sent away. But a blanket ban on any nationality, is extremely inappropriate.

we would be in a better place to examine the issue of racism in the judicial system if the data regarding conviction rates is made available.

Why shouldn't our government report them, if you have to be resourceful less people will see them. Sunlight is the best disinfectant and all that.

Again, where you are getting this stuff from? Who said anything about blanket ban on this thread? Are you sure you’re on the right thread.

You are making stuff up in bad faith. First the Eugenics thing and now talking about blanket bans on people from certain countries. No one had said anything of the sort.

This is a tactic of the left, to gaslight people who oppose uncontrolled mass immigration, by throwing in these incendiary remarks, making out as if that’s what being advocated for, when no one said anything like that.

Exactly. Suggesting there are indigenous peoples in Britain is always jumped on on MN, and seen to be offensive, never seen it anywhere in RL. It’s almost like they think we all gathered here from around the world over the last hundred years or so.

I consider myself indigenous British and according to my Ancestry DNA test I am anyway.

I don’t know if you’ve seen up thread, but I’ve made a point that that data is already available for public viewing on any European country’s government/police website. You just have to be resourceful enough to find it/translate it. I also have no issue with statistics being published about UK committed crime and the nationality of the person that has committed it. I do have an issue with using that data to impose travelling or settlement bans based on that nationality.

Yup. Me too. My paternal ancestors only moved from where my DNA says I'm from in the UK about 30 years ago. I suspect most people in this country can say similar.

From the OP:
such statistics should be used as part of a process to determine who can move to the UK. Why allow in men who statistically will carry out 40 times the sex crimes

^ how else are you reading this?

But many offenders are British and of ethnic minority heritage. Look at the recent grooming gangs - lots of Pakistani names, and brown-skinned men, but most of them were British nationals. It tells us a lot about the attitudes of low-socio-economic status Muslim men towards young disadvantaged girls, but it doesn't tell us much about offenders nationality. Most paedophiles are white, though, so using the grooming gang pictures as evidence that Muslims are a disproportionate risk isn't too clever.

I am indigenous British and proud of my ancestors and will not be made to feel ashamed and will not be corrected on this. It is my heritage.

It's always entertaining when the "anti-racists" out themselves as racists by assuming British means white.

Facts are not racist.

My experience as someone who has supported rape victims at court for almost 20 years is that the vast majority of men committing crimes of sexual violence are white British. Likewise for domestic violence.

I am not sure that drilling down statistics by racial or national origin is actually going to make women and girls feel safer. What is the implication behind the call for such statistics? that some races and nationalities are more Likely to commit such crimes? That would be taking the focus off the ball.

To my mind it's men pure and simple no matter where they come from.

And these stats don’t even include those born in this stable who aren’t really horses…

Anyone then. Because nationality can be obtained.