Crime statistics by country of origin

[Zebedee999]

The government is proposing to publish crime statistics by country of origin.

A few weeks ago I mentioned some statistics from other European countries (and in fact the UK) showing that sex crimes against women by men of certain countries are 40 times those of the indigenous British. I got called racist (the stats are by country not race) and of course the stats were removed as racist.

Personally I think women's safety should be the overriding priority and such statistics should be used as part of a process to determine who can move to the UK. Why allow in men who statistically will carry out 40 times the sex crimes of the indigenous population? Let in women by all means.

I am genuinely interested why my view is racist when to me it is simply prioritising women's safety. AIBU to want immigration processes to prioritise women's safety?

Yes - the law change is targeted AT ASYLUM SEEKERS

And who said we were only talking about asylum seekers Milo? The stats OP referred to are about all immigrants I believe?

And the government can also change the law about asylum seekers - as I’ve already said a million times so I give up.

that’s one of the reasons Farage want to change the law and take the UK out of a number of international and EU human rights instruments. Which if elected he could do.

I can't find that information. Where does it say that the government are going to discriminate whilst processing asylum claims?

My point was that you cannot discriminate whilst processing asylum claims.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn0wd75ne82o.amp

Can I ask why there is such interest around this dataset, has similar data not be readily available? It’s not new info is it? What is the map showing?

Im just not getting the furore when very similar has been released

what am I not getting?

Milo - is the point you’re desperately trying to make that a specific law change would be required to deny an asylum application from a male from a country of origin on the grounds that males from that group are significantly more likely to commit sexual violence against women and girls in Britain?

My understanding is that there will be more info/more focus on sexual offences - and this is becoming a specific area of concern

Asylum seekers are protected from discrimination under various national and international laws. For example, Refugee Convention, ECHR, UDHR and nationally EA and HRA amongst others.

The principle of non discrimination is woven throughout our legal system. Just to be clear because I understand how terribly confusing this is, discrimination against characteristics such as race, nationality, disabilities, sexual orientation, sex and religion.

You also have the problem of the principle of non refoulement which means we cannot deport people who may be in danger in their country of origin.

I'll give you an example. Let's say that the government decides that all Syrian men are sexual offenders. A Syrian man applies for asylum but is automatically rejected.

Say for example he's fleeing Assad as he's a political activist and he's about to be thrown into one of Assad's torture pits.

You're suggesting that he's put on a plane and sent back to almost certain death. Unfortunately for you, that's against the law.

Milo - do you understand that laws can be changed. And the discussion and debate is whether and how laws should be changed?

you are saying the law can’t be changed because it’s the law.

the government could change all those domestic laws and withdraw from all those international agreements.

how do you think the government was planning on sending all those asylum seekers to Rwanda? It was going to pass laws to do that.

the government could indeed pass laws and send that Syrian man back to Syria.

Reform is keen to implement laws that would allow such measures - by changing domestic law and withdrawing from international treaties and agreements (international law doesn’t just exist - it is just what countries have agreed with each other they’ll do).

is that desirable? Well that is the question for debate and discussion. And the point being strongly made by many on this thread is that in assessing options the risk of sexual violence against women and girls is as important as the risk of violence against the Syrian man.

But it is not a meaningful contribution to that debate to say that no change can be made “because it’s the law”.

And frankly you’re only doing that because you seem unable to actually engage with the actual issues - becsuse all you’ve got as far as I can tell but it’s not fair to men. You seem unable to understand that violence against women and girls is real and also matters. Both British women and girls and Syrian women and girls - who are also very poorly served by the current asylum laws and policies.

@2024onwardsandup It would be really helpful if you @ me when you're addressing a point to me. Many thanks.

I am making a meaningful contribution to the debate because I'm explaining the protections people have when they claim asylum. You seem to want an echo chamber which isn't a debate.

You don't seem to see men as human beings worthy of human rights or protection under the law. That's your prerogative, but you now seem to be suggesting that we withdraw from all human rights instruments and change our legal system so that we can lawfully discriminate.

You're right, Farage has spoken of withdrawing from the ECHR, the ERA and the HRA. However, Farage doesn't control the courts and some protections such as the principle of non refoulement is customary law. That means it's an established norm and doesn't need to be written down.

How odd to quote the last sentence of a long post and yet still completely miss the point.

Still, I suppose you think you haven't.

An example of how the political classes can pull the wool over the eyes of the Great Unwashed-it's not often we see such a clear example of numb nuts paraded before us, so I suppose I must thank you for making yourself such a sterling example.

Should I laugh or cry. I think I'll laugh!

I have no idea how you got that from what I wrote.

This thread just comes across as one big, shamelessly prejudice, paranoid confession!

This thread just comes across as one big, shamelessly prejudice, paranoid confession!

The statistics say what they say though, as upsetting as that might be if that doesn't align with your world view.

What statistics?

What statistics?

I posted some from Germany upthread. Sex offenders by nationality.

What do you expect to happen when the statistics applicable to the UK are released?

I would a critical assessment of the implications of the stastics to the risk profile for violence against women and girls and a considered analysis of the public policy implications of this.

i would expect this to be done by government, relevant third party groups with a particular interest and public commentary.

I would then expect debate and political discourse about possible responses - if the conclusions are that changes are needed to safeguard women and girls - appropriate law changes through the normal process.

is this not what you would expect @MiloMinderbinder925 ?

What do you expect to happen when the statistics applicable to the UK are released?

Similar pattern I would think.

Oh, you mean what do I expect this government to do about it? Very little or nothing.

I don't think it's crucially important to focus solely on a small percentage of offenders, so much so that we have a national debate.

What I would love to see is more money invested in education and VAWAG, policies to change attitudes, more money invested in refuges and specialised professionals, more training for the police, police on the beat, better street lighting, training for the judiciary in VAWAG and better understanding of sexual offences and more focus on increasing convictions.

Ok and I should care about “sex offenders by nationality” because….?

I engage with individuals not nationalities.

Also unless it will show sex offenders as a % of nationality then it’s designed to do nothing more that stoke bigotry.

If most sex offenders are from Malta and 50% of Maltese immigrants are sex offenders that’s an issue.

If most sex offenders are from Malta and that comprises 1% of all immigrants from Malta then why exactly would I care?

So you don’t think understanding the different behaviour of different groups of men is helpful to all that? Why not?

if the stastics show that men from say Sweden are a higher risk do you think that should be ignored?

why would you ignore this variable? Why would you not want these factors considered?

Because then you can work out where to put in place measures to stop it?

why WOULDNT you take into account this data?

Same. Except put attention on something Labour surely don’t want it to.