Crime statistics by country of origin

[Zebedee999]

The government is proposing to publish crime statistics by country of origin.

A few weeks ago I mentioned some statistics from other European countries (and in fact the UK) showing that sex crimes against women by men of certain countries are 40 times those of the indigenous British. I got called racist (the stats are by country not race) and of course the stats were removed as racist.

Personally I think women's safety should be the overriding priority and such statistics should be used as part of a process to determine who can move to the UK. Why allow in men who statistically will carry out 40 times the sex crimes of the indigenous population? Let in women by all means.

I am genuinely interested why my view is racist when to me it is simply prioritising women's safety. AIBU to want immigration processes to prioritise women's safety?

So from what I have seen they want to release crime stats by country.

So XX country has the group of immigrants with highest crime stats.

Which I think is less value than:

XX% of immigrants from XX country commit crime.

Ukraine?

But it is the crime stats from that country group as well?

ie 2000 Albanians have engaged in gang related crime (made up stats)

which is 20% of Albanians who have moved to UK

I mean sure there are issues with a straight out comparison to say 1 Buthanian who engaged in gang related which is 50% of the 2 immigrants from Bhutan.

Is thst what you mean?

but the comparators won’t be that extreme and would be clear in the data presentation.

Countries where they don’t prosecute sexual offences against women? There are no criminal records available and civility is in disarray.

to not be biased - think of it as hypothetical country

Are you back to talking about asylum seekers? I thought you said earlier that the discussion wasn't just about asylum seekers.

I'm not sure where you're going with this, especially since we don't have any data.

I've already explained why blanket bans won't work and explained quite a few times how I think we can reduce VAWAG.

Do you have anything new to add?

Yes it’s shocking how many people don’t give a stuff about women’s safety and will let anyone in from any country despite that country’s record on violence against women. Shame on them. Luckily 84% agree that statistics showing which country’s these violent types are coming from should be published. Next step is of course to stop immigration from those countries in order to protect British women.

One thing though OP. As we know VAWG is usually committed by someone close to you. Surely most men committing VAWG are abusing their own families? So unless they were moving to UK, marrying and starting a family with a British woman this isn't really about that is it? Unless you think it's only British men who are committing all the familial abuse while foreign men are running around attacking and raping strangers?

Are we only allowed to be concerned about one type of violence against women and girls?

It isn't really about VAWG this is fear mongering about stranger danger which is known to be a massive distraction from work to tackle VAWG. Again, if you care about ending VAWG this is not the answer.

and if the stastics show that there are significant offending rates? What about the women and girls
who have/will suffer?

so….no stranger violence interventions because most women are hurt from this?

It’s about VAWG for me - and lots of posters on these threads. Or is there were the racism allegations come in?

I didn't actually say that foreign men ARE posing stranger danger.

The main cause of VAWG is men. The vast majority of perpetrators in the UK are British men.

Well obviously- because the vast majority are British men…

How is that - in itself - a reason to let in a group of men who are statistically MORE likely to offend?

why wouldn’t that to be something to have a bit of a think about?

no one will be happier than me if the stastics don’t show that. But let’s just say that they do.

why would you be so hell bent on not looking at what action could be taken to not bring in a threat to women and girls when steps could be taken to avoid that threat?

Because the real problem is already here. Do I want the government to tackle VAWG? Absolutely! Do I want the government to waste years debating and progressing legislative changes to ban an entire nation's men from UK speculatively because data shows other men from their nation have disproportionately been convinced of certain kinds of crime? No. Men of that nation would still make up a very small proportion of VAWG perpetrators in Britain. And conviction rates, as I'm sure you know, don't even represent the massive problem with VAWG we already have. I'd rather Kier Starmer thought about that instead.

the government can look at more than one thing at a time.

its just such a terminally small minded position

resources for immigration issues aren’t going to then be moved to domestic initiatives against VAWG.

i think it’s a great opportunity for the whole asylum system to be reviewed to overhaul how it disproportionately favours men over women.

Interesting that you have felt the need to resort to (inaccurate) speculation and personal insults. Well good luck to you.

The main cause of VAWG is men. The vast majority of perpetrators in the UK are British men.

Why would we want more, with even higher offending rates then?

Now proposing the Men Net Reduction Strategy would make for an interesting thread. Bit sexist though I'd say. Instead of that, I think we need better education and law reform around domestic abuse personally. Misogyny should be a hate crime. That'd be a start.

Unless those statistics control for demographic differences, they don't really tell us much about criminality.

@2024onwardsandup

Do you think it's reasonable to discriminate against someone because of the national group they come from? So for example, if an Iranian teenager was tortured by the government, escaped and claimed asylum in the UK, you think it would be acceptable to refuse them on the grounds that a small percentage of their fellow countrymen resident in the UK have been convicted of sexual offences?

Yes, it is so blatant in that it is just about whipping up hate and running down people that are already not living a great life.

As I’ve said up thread I think there are strong arguments to only or at least predominantly offer asylum to women and girls

70% of asylum seekers in the UK are men. But women and girls are suffering just as much

Now proposing the Men Net Reduction Strategy would make for an interesting thread. Bit sexist though I'd say.

I'd definitely prefer that we accept a higher percentage of women than men for asylum claims, yes. I don't give a shit if that's sexist.

if you read my comments I’ve set out my position pretty throughly

The point is that if the stastics showed a significant percentage

my point is that this needs to be balanced against the risks to women and girls - why shouldn’t that factored into decision making?

Not people - men