New councillor wants to stop 'free mixing' between men and women

[SeaSwim5]

Independent candidate Maheen Kamran has been elected in Burnley.

As well as support for Gaza, her manifesto included a pledge to encourage public spaces to end free mixing of men and women.

"Muslim women aren't really comfortable being involved with Muslim men. I'm sure we can have segregated areas, segregated gyms."

Is this a sensible approach and important for inclusivity? It's notable that many anti-Trans activists advocate the importance of single-sex spaces.

However, some have raised concerns about the growing sectarian nature of UK politics.

Should we be looking to reduce 'free mixing' between men and women and create more single sex spaces?

No. We are not predominantly a Muslim country. Inclusivity by all means but this is divisive.

Single sex provision to protect women is not “anti trans” .

That's ridiculous. We want single spaces to get changed in and to do intimate private things in, we don't need single sex gyms and parks. That's segregation. If you want segregation then stay at home.

Think about it.

Sadly no

Very political. At the moment my local group is full of pro Reform people whinging about immigrants.

This might be a surprise to you but many trans people support safe single sex spaces for biological women. And just want more spaces to be made for them so they can be safe too.

There are a lot of narcissists who seek to use women's bathrooms for validation purposes only of course. But not all trans people are like that.

The problem is that trans people's voices are being drowned out by a small but vocal minority of entitled twats.

31 likes on that post I qouted.

Single sex spaces have to be justified as "proportionate means to achieving a legitimate aim" to be lawful. Single sex supermarkets would be both unlawful and unworkable, single sex changing rooms can be lawfully justified.

Many gyms are private businesses so could offer a range of classes for different groups if there was market demand.

Sex segregation in public places for solely for religious reasons would not meet the threshold of a proportionate means to achieving a legitimate aim and would be at odds with the wishes of most people in a secular society.

She wants women only gyms.

I don’t see why that’s controversial

I get so tired of these disingenuous threads. They start with a contentious premise that is guaranteed to get other posters flocking in. Today we have 'Muslim' and a 'trans rights' crossover with a side dish of Gaza. The OP never (at least initially) expresses their own opinion but they pitch in regularly to keep the discussion moving - like a teacher or lecturer. The first post even feels like an exam question.

The language is telling. It's all questions - 'should we', 'why', 'is this' - or statements about what other people may or may not say/think/do.

It's one councillor who got less than 1500 votes as an independent in a small town. I don't think it warrants concern.

I can imagine at these rallies, which are very well attended , Fagash and his cohorts no doubt encourage the faithful to get on SM and spread the message I really don't have the energy to waste my time on their drivel so I'm retreating back to things like the garden and sorting out the house. But it is the cowards way out.

They beleive that the spivvs and chancers behind Reform will make their lives better - it's like Trump in America and we have our own home grown poundshop version - Farige ,who if he does get into power, and their's a fair chance he will. will compound the damage he has already wrough with Brexit. Grim times getting grimmer.

Sleepwalking into a very grim future for England.

Exactly this.

Insidious.

How would it apply? Only within the Muslim community? Or does everyone have to 'comply'? Is it optional? If I am a Muslim woman who is perfectly happy 'interacting' with male Muslim men at the library, am I banned?

IF a gym wants to offer male and female sessions fine. AS LONG AS there is an option to attend mixed sex if you would rather.

That's the key for me. OPTIONAL.

Your second paragraph here shows a complete (whether through ignorance or deliberate choice I don’t know) misunderstanding of the debate around single sex spaces. Gender critical women aren’t arguing for more things to be single sex, just that those which are should actually be single sex and exclude people not of the designated biological sex. Why would they support segregating more things?

Are you seriously asking this? This must be a data gathering post from the OP

It feels like we are not sleepwalking but drunkendly stumbling and thrashing into it and if/when Fagash doesn't get the results he is promising it's what comes next that worries me more. If he gets power and further wrecks and divides the country we will truly be in uncharted territory.

Think it’s fine if people are choosing to segregate or for reasons of safety and privacy. Private businesses my offer female or male only services and thats fine imo.

My concern is when she says public spaces, which ones?

Gyms are an interesting one.

Personally, I don’t agree with women being segregated from men to protect them from sexual harassment. Most men don’t sexually harass. It’s disproportionate. Men who do sexually harass should be prosecuted and barred. Men have to be held to account for unacceptable behaviour. Not kept away on the presumption they’ll behave unacceptably. Otherwise, we’re back to the old-fashioned argument that women shouldn’t go out in mini skirts in case men sexually harass or assault them. We should expect they won’t, with consequences if they do.

This is dangerous territory. We should not shape our environments to fit a specific immigrant culture.

If Muslim women want to be away from Muslim men, then they can sort that out themselves - in all honestly, I dont want to mix with lots of Muslim men either!

We need to nip this in the bud now!

No it isn’t. Don’t be silly. Leaving aside the ‘align with the far right’ nonsense for a minute, we’ve had single sex spaces ever since women fought for them in order to allow themselves greater public freedoms. They haven’t led to segregation so far and it is in no way a ‘logical step’ from single sex spaces for privacy and dignity to general segregation.
The fact that some far right people are anti LGBTQ+ and so support keeping single sex spaces single sex does not mean GC feminists ‘align’ with them. It just means that on one issue their beliefs are similar (though differently motivated).

Our local swimming pool has women only sessions. They are very popular for all sorts of reasons-from religious requirements to women who don’t feel happy wearing a swimsuit in front of men to women who don’t want to risk encountering the dickish some men demonstrate while lane swimming. I don’t see a problem, personally.

Most muslim countries don’t segregate public spaces tbf. I’ve lived in the gulf, there is a lot of respect for womens personal space etc in public spaces but people sit where they want in restaurants etc. There are plenty of women only services etc which again is very reasonable. Go to Turkey or Lebanon and you don’t see the kind of segregation that some of these people want.

It’s an extreme position tbh.

OP, I think you're coming at this from an odd angle. The argument has never been whether or not there should be spaces designated for women (TRA were always very keen on them.) The argument is about who should be considered a woman for the purpose of the use of the space. Now this has been clarified and TW are excluded, has the argument changed to, if we can't use women's spaces then there's no need for them?

Women only gyms already exist.