To ask if you are not a Christian, what non Christian values you live by?

[BlossomBlanket]

Just that really!

The Wicca Rede. I'm not a Wiccan, but it encapsulates the values I try to live. Particularly Harm none, do as you will. I like to add 'and try to help where you can' and think in a nutshell thats all thats needed for a good life.

Even if it was not a serious question, your attitude to it stinks.

I don't, I loved a module I took on it and had huge admiration for my tutor. I've never even heard of the Good Place so I will investigate

How can you possibly know anything about my attitude or demeanour from a sentence of text. It appeared like a glib question by someone not particularly, likely conditioned to have a hostile response in particular directions and perhaps not with the will or interest to invest the time to read and understand a considered response I might have written. Your attitude isn't much better if that's all you have to say on this thread.

I hated The Good Place, fwiw. I really wanted to like it, and watched it properly, but it just....didn't grab me at all. Ted Danson is really good in it, though.

My own personal Christianity is don't be a dick if you can help it, and try to see the good in everyone. I don't always manage it, but I try.

Be curious, be creative, be kind.

Be kind to you self and others. Work hard and do your best. Give back.

Also re Christian values I can whole heartedly say I don’t kill, steal or cheat and I have never coveted my neighbour house or his wife.

I have my own moral compass and recognise that the sexist bigoted money hungry values of so called Christian’s in charge is frankly gross.

Is it suitable for older children at all? The Good Place, that is

I'm curious what people mean when they say, cause no harm, because that is a fundamental tenet of liberalism - my freedom goes as far as harming others, but we've seen huge dispute and conflict over what constitutes harm.

That's a lot of accusations for one post.
So, to make sure we are on the same page, what do you mean by

"sexist"
"bigoted"
"Money hungry values"
"so-called Christians in charge" ? (In charge of what BTW?)

The entire bible is riddled with sexism.
it is bigoted.
religions always come with expectation of contributing to the “church” propping up those at the top.
The entire institution is corrupt.

The entire bible is riddled with sexism.

This is not totally correct.
The Old Testament was written against a backdrop of an ancient world.
The New Testament is different.

As it still does today, divorce in the ancient world left many women in dire economic and social straits. At the time of Christ, Mosaic law allowed a husband to leave his wife, but a wife could not leave her husband. Jesus’ prohibition of divorce established Christianity as the only religion in the history of the world to call its members to strict monogamy:

By establishing one moral code obligatory on men and women alike, Christianity fostered a lasting commitment of unconditional covenantal love, protecting the family structure and putting the sexes on an equal footing.

Men and women are equal but not interchangeable

As the first letter to the Corinthians indicates, just as the human body has different members and each member a different purpose, so, too, the various parts of the body of Christ—successors to the apostles, prophets, teachers, healers, helpers, administrators—are all essential, valuable, and vital (cf. 1 Cor. 12:4–30).

Live Laugh Love.

Gets me through 99% of it. 😆

Oh dear. That wasn’t a clever move.

look, there are many good human values - honesty, kindness, selflessness, courage etc. some of these are also Christian values. Some of them are also values in other religions. You’re asking about things that are not mutually exclusive.

Have we? I think where there are disputes it's always clear there is some harm. The disputes arise when harm to someone is inevitable because there are two opposing interests that cannot be reconciled. The guiding principle them should be do the least harm to the fewest people. Also, to recognise that being prevented from gaining an advantage is not the same thing as suffering loss.

it is bigoted.

How?

religions always come with expectation of contributing to the “church”

Do you pay a subscription to have Sky, use of a sports centre, have a music tutor? Do you pay to have your bins emptied and roads swept?

If you belong to a club, group or society it's not unreasonable for the organisers to ask for donations to keep it going.

Propping up those at the top

I'm not sure what you mean by that but Christ is the head of the church and I don't think he needs our help.

The entire institution is corrupt.

That's a bit of a sweeping statement.

Any organisation run by fallible humans will make mistakes.

Look at the H of C for starters.

I would say that it's fine for teenagers. No swearing...No sex...

I just generally try not to be an arsehole.

With varying degrees of sucess, I admit.

Just to add, the application of do no harm do as you will can actually be the antithesis of liberalism if applied with emphasis on the first, and at a societal level. We would have to ban alcohol, driving and capitalism for a start.

Don't burn people at the stake
Don't sexually abuse altar boys
Don't perform symphysiotomies on women or deny them access to abortion
Don't bury thousands of infants in mass graves
Don't forcibly convert people

I don't get your post.

Have you just arrived here by time-travel from the Middle Ages? 🤔

You are surely aware that the mass burials happened well into the 20th century, and that we are nowhere near getting to the bottom of the levels of sexual abuse committed by clergy yet?

But I digress. In terms of the PP's points, have a go at this:

The entire bible is riddled with sexism - Paul's exhortations against women have been used historically to keep women small and oppressed. The notion of male headship is inherently sexist and oppressive. The notion that nobody is allowed a divorce has kept generations of (mostly) women in abusive marriages. This is not unique to Christianity - it seems to be a feature in most major religions.

It is bigoted - all brands of Christianity believe they are the one true faith and everyone else is wrong. Then there is the attitude towards homosexuals, which makes no sense at all and has driven support for the persecution of gay people in African countries. Christian church movements are culpable in the death, imprisonment and physical abuse of homosexuals here.

religions always come with expectation of contributing to the “church” propping up those at the top. It is not unreasonable to expect financial contributions from members of an organisation; however, when this descends into 'prosperity gospel' type churches where people are encouraged and shamed into giving money they can't afford, then blamed when they are poor and told they must not be Christian enough, that is corrupt. There's also the amount of wealth many religious organisations hold on to, and the tax perks they get. These should be stripped away.

The entire institution is corrupt. Obviously Christianity and other faiths are not monoliths, and there are many pockets of excellent behaviour and values, but there needs to be more scrutiny and transparency as per the point above.

So who/what is your beef actually with?

Christianity or just all religions?

I live in the UK where Christianity is still the dominant faith. I have family in the US, and my DC are US citizens, and Christianity allied with Trump is wreaking havoc over there. So yes, that is my chief beef. It isn't the faith that I have issues with, however - I have many friends of all faiths and none. My issue is with organised religion infringing on my freedom of choice as a woman and on my DC's freedom of choice as people who are gay. Leave us alone and we're good.