To ask if you are not a Christian, what non Christian values you live by?

[BlossomBlanket]

Just that really!

Shame more Christians didn't live by these values

@cakeorwine yes an outright lie that would save someone's life would be a white lie. Weird expression because it sounds like it has to be about a minor thing but I don't think it would have to be minor. i would invent an absolute whopper if I thought it could work and it would save a life.

I don't and never would keep slaves or stone to death unruly children. I eat shellfish and wear mixed fibres. I would never abandon my family to starve to death to follow Jesus.

Given the context of calling somebody bald, it is obviously younger children, but regardless of age, it isn't really acceptable to murder 40 youngsters by tearing them apart with two she bears.

I'd have to disagree with you there. @Brahumbug This sounds just like the sort of insult a low IQ thug would throw. This wasn't a group of kids making fun of a bald guy, this was most likely an aggressive mob or gang (of at least 42 young men). They were citizens of Israel who came from the nearby city of Bethel - by this point a den of iniquity. They worshipped the pagan gods of their neighbours, which involved horrific child sacrifice. Elisha was a prophet of God - their God, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, who they chose to reject and rebel against. These men may well have been armed and intending to kill him. The two bears 'mauled' the group, the passage doesn't include anything about killing.

Well, that's all speculation. Like most of the Bible. It's a book, end of. There are many others.

The Way of Pratchett also comes from books. I prefer it.

You should watch the Good Place. It's a fascinating show with morality and moral philosophy at the heart of it.

But everyone hate's moral philosophers.

That is complete fabrication, no translation of this event indicates it was a gang of thugs. That is desperate tap dancing around the fact that god was responsible for the death of 42 children or youngsters merely for mocking a bald man. Tearing apart by bears does not end well! They are unlikely to have survived. You will be telling me next that god doesn't condone slavery.

Man makes God in his own image - and so we do the same thing for God when he does something awful and inexcusable that we do for our fellow humans:
"Well, she shouldn't have worn those clothes/had a drink,"
"Well, he must have done something,"
Or in this case "Well, they were child sacrificing pagans so they deserved it,"

I get through life by believing there is no God and believing that most people are actually inclined to be pretty decent, but the latter faith is being sorely tested right now.

Not at all @Brahumbug as with most reading of the Bible, context is important. Have you actually read the whole book of Kings? This is usually one of the passages used as anti-God ammunition.

I enjoy a good Pratchett book @pointythings but I think we can all agree he wasn't a prophet and his writing wasn't guided by the Holy Spirit.
The Bible also isn't just one book, it's a collection of sacred texts, by multiple authors in various places, spanning thousands of years.

"Let him who is without sin cast the first stone". JC

'The Bible also isn't just one book, it's a collection of (sacred) texts, by multiple authors in various places, spanning thousands of years.'

The texts are only sacred if you have taken the leap of faith required to believe that they are. To me, they are no more and no less sacred than any other texts, and the things Terry Pratchett talks about resonate with me a great deal more than much of the Bible. You have but to read the Vimes series to realise the man had an excellent moral compass.

Sin is a meaningless concept, since it includes things that are only 'wrong' because some people have chosen to dictate that they are: same sex relationships are the most obvious one, see also premarital sex. Those prohibitions make no sense in the modern world and therefore I will ignore them.

ETA: I've always found it very telling that the first 4 of the 10 commandments are all about God saying 'me, me, me' - the stuff about treating your fellow humans decently feels like an afterthought. That isn't good enough for me.

We are made in God's image, not the other way around @pointythings and regardless of whether you believe sin exists, everyone will be held accountable when we meet Him face to face.

"I tell you, on the day of judgment people will give account for every careless word they speak, for by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.” JC

My values come from my parents and wider family, from the CofE primary school I attended 35 years ago, & the ethics classes at university.

I am basically, help others if they need it. Don't be a dick (thanks, pp). Don't take what is not yours. Fight for what's right. Try and aim for a peaceful life. Don't disturb the peace of others. Keep yourself informed & educated.

I haven't read the Bible nor any other religious text nor do I plan to, they don't interest me. I do read books on social history and justice though.

I am an atheist because I don't believe in the existence of a higher power or anything paranormal. Doesn't mean I can't be a good, law abiding person.

A very true saying.

I completely agree with all of that, and would add that one other value I try and live by is ‘leave your bit of the world in a better place than when you arrived’

The thing is, that's your belief, but many of us don't share that belief. You simply stating it as if it's fact doesn't actually make it so.

if this is true, shouldn’t we be organizing a revolution?

@MrsBennetsPoorNerves

The Tao, which others may call Natural Law or Traditional Morality or the First Principles of Practical Reason or the First Platitudes, is not one among a series of possible systems of value. It is the sole source of all value judgments. If it is rejected, all value is rejected. If any value is retained, it is retained. The effort to refute it and raise a new system of value in its place is self-contradictory. There has never been, and never will be, a radically new judgment of value in the history of the world. What purport to be new systems or…ideologies…all consist of fragments from the Tao itself, arbitrarily wrenched from their context in the whole and then swollen to madness in their isolation, yet still owing to the Tao and to it alone such validity as they posses.

The Abolition of Man, C.S.Lewis.

That is what you believe. Belief is all it is. I believe there is no God, and when I die, I will end. I am fine with that.

Sorry, I am not quite sure why you're quoting C.S.Lewis at me. His views were obviously informed by his beliefs, just as your views are informed by your own beliefs and my views are informed by my beliefs.

Your views, and those of C.S.Lewis, are no more valid than mine.

We can agree to differ.

Humanism….Affirming human worth and dignity, reason, compassion, morality, ethics, democracy, scientific inquiry, naturalism, and critical thinking with no adherence or affirmation of a divine creator or other supernatural force.

Of course I have read the whole of Kings, I am familiar with all of the Law and the Prophets. The Bible isn't one book? That is rather stating the obvious. We have no idea who wrote most of the books including those of the new testament, the only ones that can be reasonably attributed are the writings of Paul, the rest are anonymous. It is claimed by believers to represent an absolute standard of morality given by god, a morality which is clearly lacking. Do you condemn the biblical position on slavery?

"I tell you, on the day of judgment people will give account for every careless word they speak, for by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.” JC

How does this mesh with the equally Christian belief that if you're not a Christian, you're going to hell? So no matter how good your words and deeds are, you're fucked if you don't follow one additional rule - believe in Jesus.