to think many grandmothers actually do not want to do childcare?

[onlytwo]

I go to a regular toddler group and there are many older women there with their grandchildren.

Been talking to them and many of them do not want to do childcare but have been pressured into by mostly their daughters but also their sons. Their children often think they are delighted to be looking after their grandchildren but often it is a huge struggle for these women (and it mostly women). They feel like they can't take a break because their children rely on them for childcare because of the cost of nurseries and general cost of living. They no longer have the same energy levels and also often have health issues.

Also grandfathers are usually not pressured into doing childcare and are rarely expected to give up their job when grandchildren come along. Their life mostly remains unchanged,

I feel the expectation of women to keep doing childcare is unfair and is coming from their own daughters. Some of the older women are frail and struggling to keep up with young children.

When talking to the mums, they say their mums love spending time with their grandchildren and looking after them. That is not what they have said to me.

It might also be a cultural thing?
And the expectation that grandchildren need to be ferried around and stimulated/entertained, which can be a tiring experience.
Also, grandparents are older in age now (mid- late 60s) than a couple of generations ago (mid 50s), and there is a difference in tiredness.
Looking after little ones is an energetic job.
I guess it also depends on how many grandchildren there are to be looked after.
I am hoping my own children will have their own children at a time when I will still have enough energy. And hopefully live close enough to us. I'd love to be an involved grandmother and have them at our house as much as possible and I can see DH being quite hands on as well.
The reality may well be quite different 😁 It's ages yet until then. But, in theory, in my head, I imagine most grandparents enjoy helping out on a regular basis. I'm surprised and when I read on MN this is not the case for a lot of people.

Yes nobody lives in a vacuum but the burden is falling on women to do the care way more than on men.

In my friends serbian culture one generation minds the next. Its def hard with no backup but I guess you cope. I did find it hard with no help.

@onlytwo so? The answer isn't to let more families and children struggle by pulling up the ladder.

These men that are now grandparents were fathers in the 80s and 90s not some 1950s dad that barely knew his children. My dad, and all my uncles and my FIL were "active" "hands on" dads - they are now the same as grandfathers.

The answer is to stop letting men be so crap rather than letting women (at all stages) suffer.

My dad (mid 80s - grandkids are 12-19) wasn't a bad dad at all by 1970s standards. Would I trust him with an under 5? Nooo! No relevant experience & doesn't notice stuff.

Looking at my friends, he's the norm not the exception.

@Needlenardlenoo perhaps that's a you issue then and you need to unclench - you survived to adulthood. I don't believe overly anxious hovering parents or grandparents serves anyone well.

My parents don't do exactly what I would do with my children and that's completely fine, you can't control every aspect of life.

I can see it from both sides. I'm not a grandma yet but my older sisters are and providing childcare for grandchildren when you're still working full-time is exhausting - that's one of the major differences compared to previous generations. At the same time, trying to get by financially as working parents in this climate is really tough without some support with childcare.

When I needed support as a young depressed mum, my mother was in her early sixties and working full time in a job she disliked. For various reasons - four children, two with disabilities, husband working long hours etc - I needed an extra pair of hands on a regular basis to maintain my sanity. We were fortunate enough to be able to pay for help so I offered to pay my mum for three days at the same rate as her employer and we had an informal arrangement that worked for us both for about 4 years until she wanted to officially retire and my last child was in school. She always said this set up allowed her to be a grandma, as both financially and in terms of availability she just wouldn't have been able to see the children much in their early years if she'd had to continue working in her previous job.

She did get tired but I never left her alone for any length of time with all four and I didn't take the piss - making sure she had regular holiday breaks, flexibility for any appointments etc. I was lucky that she also had a similar approach to parenting to me so there was no friction in terms of behaviour/rules/ food etc. But mainly the whole arrangement was about allowing me to have individual time with each of the children, time to tailor support to their disabilities and catch up on chores rather than expecting her to take the whole parenting load on.

From mine and my children's perspective, it was a lovely intergenerational time in our lives and I feel very privileged to have had this type of family support. My youngest child was particularly bonded to her - even calling her 'mama'. I think from what she said my mother appreciated her time with us too but I'm also sure there were days where she'd have preferred to be on a beach in the South of France!

So women need to suffer so families do not suffer?

Hands on is a term rarely used for mothers.

Then it is ok for grandmothers to do the care while the grandfathers enjoy their retirement?

@onlytwo I put hands on in quotes because I think its BS

Women are part of families- and and not at any point have I said women should suffer - I said grandparents should help, because it is nice to help your adult children. Especially when they received help themselves when their children were young.

Your children don't stop being your children just because they are adults - and you should help your children when you can. Regardless of their age.

Not true in my case. My children have 2 wonderful grandfathers, when caring for them they are always well fed, clean, potty, nappy change, well rested. MIl is quite frankly hopeless

This is a genuine query! Is English your 1st language?

Don;t as opposed to Don’t? Yes, call me pedantic!

Thats quite unkind. Intelligent, well-educated English speakers can have typos you know, from typing fast, multitasking etc.

What do you think should be happening? From the thread, it seems some grandparents are happy to do regulsr childcare, some aren't. Yes, the burden falls more on women, which is shouldn't, but there are plenty of hands-on grandads too. It sounds like detailed discussions on expectations and boundaries are essential between parents and grandparents when discussing childcare plans, but what else is there to say really? Inter generational help when willingly provided can be a wonderful thing, but OP you seem to be determined to be against it at all costs, which I find odd.

I think young parents forget that their own parents are not as young as they were and health problems such as arthritis can interfere with looking after grandchildren however much the GP would like to. Getting older also makes one tire more quickly. Menopause at 50 happens for a reason I.e. ones childcare days are over!

grandparents should help, because it is nice to help your adult children

It is mostly falling on women. The figures show grandmothers are giving up work or reducing their hours to help with GC. Not grandfathers on the whole.

The expectations are rarely there for grandfathers. There are a lot of women taking the strain.

That is why the I use the word grandmothers tend to do more of menial tasks The research supports this too.

Inter generational help when willingly provided can be a wonderful thing, but OP you seem to be determined to be against it at all costs, which I find odd.

Why do you think I am against it? I am concerned that it is falling more on women than men. The research supports this. A lot of women are burdened and pressurised with the expectations on them which are not often there for men.

If grandmothers want to help willingly that is fine but a lot are under pressure and feel like they cannot say no. Grandmothers on this thread have said time and time again they feel under pressure. Grandfathers mostly go off and enjoy their retirement.

Totally agree. When I used to attend playgroups and at the school gate I've had various grandparents (mainly women) tell me about how difficult they find managing their grandchildren, how hard, how draining, how expensive. They are generally very miserable and disappointed by the expectation placed on them (by very grabby adults I'd imagine) My neighbours live close to their children and I see their grandchildren nearly every day of the week, popping in, having meals, collected from school, school days off, being ill, holidays. I'd be embarrassed to force my parents into being obliged.

Ditto.
This was my experience in a toddler group in a very MC setting.
Lots of lovely retired grandparents not quite believing how they have ended up with babies and toddlers after long careers.
Lovely women and indeed some men.
All exhausted.
Very much the case of their children balking at the cost of paying for childcare, in some cases.

Can't pay childcare AND ski.

At 60, among my friends, we are all advising those about to have their first grandchild ....to proceed with great care. Commit to zero, beyond babysitting the odd time and emergency care without knowing exactly what you might be signing up for.

100% agree. I used to run various toddler/ baby groups and saw poor exhausted Grandma’s all the time. It’s no wonder the birth rate is plummeting because relying on our elderly (who should be relaxing and enjoying themselves in their twilight years) to provide childcare in the absence of jobs that pay enough for 1 parent to work or affordable, good nursery provision is not sustainable.

I don't disagree with your concerns. As you say there are plenty of examples of here where it is too much for some and it falls more on women. That's clearly not right.

But there are also lots of positive stories too - here and elsewhere- but you seem determined that they are the exception to a dreadful norm.

As for the less positive side of grandparent childcare, what do you think should happen about it or change? That's probably more interesting and important. We can all give postive/negative examples, but it doesn't really help.

As i get older and see all these changes that have happened over the last 30 years or so it just rubber stamps that my decision to remain child free by choice was the right one

I am not determined to see that the positive stories are exception to the dreadful norm. Why do you think that?

People have shared lovely positive stories but this thread is about the not so positive lovely stories and my concern is for the grandmothers being pressurised into care because of the weight of expectations on them.

I think the pressure and expectations on women to childcare for their GC needs to stop. Fine if they want to do it. So many women have pointed out how their mother now will not help when she had help. This kind of judgment between women needs to stop. It is conveniently keeping mostly men out of the picture and free to enjoy their retirement.

I do not have the answers but I want the grandmothers to have their voice heard. So many on this thread are exhausted, burdened and unhappy. Hopefully mostly daughters and DILs may think twice when organising their childcare. Men should be a lot more involved.

Men are given so much slack because 'they don't know how' to care for a young child.

Are you a mother/grandmother or hope for grandchildren/children in future? (Sorry if you have already disclosed this information) It would just be interesting to hear how you would deal with your children/future grandchildren if asked to care for them x