Why are so many English people so cold and reserved?

[Seventell]

Im English myself. But i havent lived In England for a long time.

Ive had a nice career and ive lived and worked all over Europe. I most recently, was living in Italy.

My female boss in italy was so nice.

The first day that i was there, she asked me what i liked to do, i said that i liked to go to art classes. She told me about all the art museums in the area.

She looked up art classes for me to go to.
She also used to bring in little cakes for me every day. She said things like "if you ever need help with anything, ask me" my other colleagues were all really nice to me aswell. They would invite me out for dinners, and they were all so kind.

Ive just moved back to England two weeks ago. Im just shocked! My boss here is so cold. But not just cold. He seems really emotionally stunted, like he is barely able to have a conversation.
My other colleagues are like that aswell. They are really cold.
Ive also gone out to groups and ive seen that english people are much colder in these groups, then people are in other countries that ive lived in

Its just made me think - what has happened to english people. A lot of them seem so emotionally stunted and emotionally damaged.

Not about Ireland in particular, but I agree visiting a country and finding everyone really friendly and chatty doesn't necessarily translate into that country being a great place in which to make lasting friendships.

The reality is that it is pretty hard to make real friends as an adult, even if you are in your own country. Once you get into adulthood, people have their own families and their circle of friends, and often aren't looking to add more. The OP's best bet might be to look for friends among her fellow expats, not because 'the English' are horrible, but because she's likely to have more in common with people in a similar situation.

I, my partner and many of my friends agree with this (not just Ireland). England will do a bit of 'we must have dinner ' but it's pretty clear what's politeness when caught of the hop. English friendliness and friendship is often quite progressive and steady, but you know where you stand. Others don't feel made fools out of as often. People don't generally invite intimacy or confidences unless they mean it (or are nosy!). I'm talking mostly work and adult friendships. Obviously there are exceptions but it's easier to warm up slowly with someone that think you've hit it off and there was never anything there just party manners.

I remember chatting with someone who lived in The Netherlands and she said that whenever she'd casually say 'Oh we must have coffee some time', the Dutch person would immediately take out their calendar and say something like 'OK, Monday the 5th at 10 would be good for me'. Then my friend would have to awkwardly say that she was speaking in rather more general terms!

Why are so many English people so cold and reserved?

Laughs in Slavic

I don't slag them off because they don't behave how I want them to. My dad is English, my mum is from South America and I live in the UK amd i have dark skin. I have never encountered the issues you have. But I don't go around calling them cold and unfriendly so I don't get abuse back.

I don’t find the English to be notably reserved and cold. If anything there’s an emphasis on outward amenability, with an aversion to directness in communication (that was the biggest culture shock for me, and I never got the hang of it).

What formed English ways? The same thing that forms the ways in every country - cultural influences. Specifically Protestantism imo.

Hmm, having worked in construction and also in a blue chip corporate environment I'd say there's a big difference between them, even if this sounds like a generalisation. In the former there's a lot of banter and light heartedness, in the latter there seemed to be a lot more 'professional distance' where people acted a lot more reserved.

FWIW I have a Lithuanian and a Russian friend and both are lovely but much more blunt than most English women. They could definitely be seen as frosty by people that don't know them well.

The French can be pretty standoffish at times too I've found.

"With an aversion to directness in communication"

This is itself indirect. Do you mean they are liars, backstabbers, hypocrites, time-wasters- what exactly?

Ooh have a read into Politeness Theory, Levinson , maybe Goffman etc. It's linguistics. Not just English but it might help you decode us!! Face saving etc. Wait while you get into China and Japan for comparison!

In English I would say the polite face saving isn't all that complex once you understand it. It's is quite subtle though.

It's easier to decide to me anyway than surface friendliness and warmth which is isn't deliberate but catches you off guard more when someone from that a culture who is effervescent and chattering instantly away and suddenly the party chat is over. You get used to it, it's fine. However you know where you are with 'lovely' day, isn't it?' and not getting your expectations raised!!

To @InterIgnis

Is it? I guess I did absorb some after all then.

Indirect - not straight talkers. I find English people more likely to talk around saying no to something, or justify why they’re saying no, as opposed to just saying no. Or not saying no at all, and finding themselves having to do something they don’t actually want to do (and being quietly resentful).

What a bonkers reply!

She's talking about how we'd say something like "oh, I'm not too sure about that" when we mean hell no.

Oh, gotcha, just general mealy-mouthedness and evasiveness, then.

I always got the impression they're oddly proud of it, but it can make definitely them frustrating to deal with.

Would you care to favour us with a list of other cultures' characteristics that you'd describe in similarly disparaging terms?

I think you’re not fully understanding Irish culture. We’re not ‘lovely’. That’s a misunderstanding, with a soupçon of Bórd Fáilte marketing. We would never claim to be ‘lovely’ apart from when joking about our international reputation.

Irish culture is far more indirect than, for instance, English, but that indirectness operates differently, and part of the way it operates is via what other cultures interpret as ‘friendliness’. It’s not friendliness, it’s just the normal mode of social self-presentation, just as other cultures don’t use ‘please’ because it is implied in the way a request is phrased in their language (which can come across as rude when that person operates in English) or aren’t ‘smiling’ cultures. Or like Japanese people tend to avoid flat negatives, and much of their intention has to be read via context and other cues. (My autistic English nephew is studying in Japan and struggling to get his head around this.)

Irish ‘friendliness’ doesn’t imply everyone’s delighted to see you and ready to befriend you any more than American cashiers are really concerned about you having a nice day — it’s just a cultural norm which functions in practice as a kind of reserve. Much easier to rub along in a small place with a mask of ‘Ah sure, grand and yourself’. (‘Grand’ can mean anything from ‘All right’ to ‘About to cut my throat, thanks’, as my English-born seven year old observed after we moved to Ireland.) Neither is it actively deceitful. It’s just that it looks effusive to people from elsewhere, who read it as sunny open-heartedness, when in fact it’s a kind of neutrality.

I lived in England for many years, and obviously functioned in English workplaces. When I moved back to work in Ireland in the same field, it took me a couple of months to realise that I was considered rude because I’d imported my English learned ‘directness with me. I had to relearn ‘Hi Gráinne, shocking day, isn’t it? How was the Communion?’ before getting around to asking for whatever I’d phoned her to request.

I'd chat to you in the workplace but I'll yammer on to anyone.

My mum left France in her 20s because she found it too unfriendly so I think it's a problem people have all over the globe.

I moved here 15 years ago and I sometimes still struggle to connect with most English people! Not sure whether this is down to culture or my own reticence - but people where I am from are certainly more outwardly warm and 'nice.'

Who are 'they'?

Thanks for the recommendation, I’m going to order that book. Perhaps strangely I ‘got’ the hang of Chinese and Japanese customs more easily, possibly because it’s more predictable?

I did get used to the English style after a while, although it does sometimes still trip me up. My biggest hurdle was ‘softening’ my own communication style, I’m still blunt by English standards, just not as blunt.

Sure if you want. New Zealanders, more interested in perceiving themselves as "nice guys" than in the actual objects of their niceness/charity/good works. Philistines by nature and not given to spirituality unless it's the wafty woo woo crystals kind. Think they invented everything including manned flight. Often have well-meaning vague ideas about things they don't understand because that would take a bit of effort, and not at all given to self-reflection. (For example, quite likely to believe Palestinians have been hard done by, but not always willing to consider whether the Māori should have greater rights to the land stolen from them by the Crown in the 19th century.) Think they're a great farming and practical nation but most have never so much as shorn a cow or milked a chicken. Chat shit on the Internet from boredom and a sense of their futility in a vast and uncaring universe.

Fantastic, I hope you enjoy it! I totally get that with Mandarin (I don't speak Japanese sadly but know some rusty Mandarin). Writing isn't easy, Lord knows, but it's so relaxing, the structure and simplicity of the isolating morphology, noun classes etc. Slavic languages though, cases etc
, opposite side of the scale but totally fascinating too!

OP, where is it you're actually working? It does sound very unpleasant.

I've lived abroad, still do, and not everyone is friendly, that's an impossibility. However, some people are really hostile, and that can be hurtful, I know.

You don’t need to have lived abroad to be well travelled and experienced a lot of cultures. Places in Spain and France I met very rude people. Rude Spanish families skipping the queue in the water park whilst my children had stood waiting for nearly an hour, when I addressed them politely they shouted in my face. In Paris I bought a baguette from a cafe and then asked to use the toilet, the man aggressively shouted no whilst shaking his finger! I’ve had my bag stolen twice in Spain, taxi drivers not even attempting to be nice in any way and being totally ripped off by a taxi driver in Greece as well as train workers in Prague taking my passport as I had not stamped my ticket and taking 100 euro from me which I found out is way more than the fine! None of this has ever happened to me when visiting England and I wouldn’t be judging the whole country anyway

Oh, I don't think Irish people are any 'lovelier' than anyone else. People are just people, everywhere. My point was that the Irish are often perceived this way, by people who then struggle to get their heads around everything you've described.

Cultures OP might think are "friendlier" on the surface have their own nuances, which she would discover for herself once she moved past the tourist stage.