Why are so many English people so cold and reserved?

[Seventell]

Im English myself. But i havent lived In England for a long time.

Ive had a nice career and ive lived and worked all over Europe. I most recently, was living in Italy.

My female boss in italy was so nice.

The first day that i was there, she asked me what i liked to do, i said that i liked to go to art classes. She told me about all the art museums in the area.

She looked up art classes for me to go to.
She also used to bring in little cakes for me every day. She said things like "if you ever need help with anything, ask me" my other colleagues were all really nice to me aswell. They would invite me out for dinners, and they were all so kind.

Ive just moved back to England two weeks ago. Im just shocked! My boss here is so cold. But not just cold. He seems really emotionally stunted, like he is barely able to have a conversation.
My other colleagues are like that aswell. They are really cold.
Ive also gone out to groups and ive seen that english people are much colder in these groups, then people are in other countries that ive lived in

Its just made me think - what has happened to english people. A lot of them seem so emotionally stunted and emotionally damaged.

Good god woman, where do you find all these people? I’m foreign and down south too, and I sort of know where you’re coming from, but I’ve been here 30 years and it doesn’t register anymore. But you do come across in your posts as a bit full on.

Have you read Americanah? I recommend it. It’s about an immigrant woman.

Back to British etiquette. Pause. Breathe. Seriously. There is a pause between meeting someone and asking them what did you do at the weekend. And frankly it is a bit odd if you only just met me. We like to meet, meet again and say Hi, meet again and say ‘haven’t seen you in a while’, meet again and say ‘how have you been ‘ and then we go into how was your weekend. It feels intrusive to meet me like 3 minutes ago and ask me straight up: how was your weekend. Cause that’s my personal time, personal information. An awful lot of people here are lonely and find the question excruciating, they haven’t seen or spoken to anyone the whole weekend. Let me get to know you before I tell you I did fuck all/met my daughter for lunch/ran 5k etc. I don’t know why, but it’s how it is.

Also, there is a lot of context to everything we do. I wouldn’t let you make me a coffee at the office. And I bloody love coffee. But it comes across as a bit too keen, I suppose, you only just met me. Out of work, visiting, of course, yes thank you. But not at work.

Friendly and overfamiliar are two different things.

So, if you met me today and want to be friendly, when we’re in the coffee room, ask me if I’m reading anything good, is that through a book club, do I prefer paper copies to kindle etc. That’s ok
If we’re at the desk and I’m showing you what needs to be done and how and you start asking about what I did at the weekend, I’ll think you’re not focusing on the job/not interested. Worse if you ask me if I want a coffee, no mate, I want to show you how things are done. You’re very welcome to say: I need a drink before we start, give me two seconds. I might join you in making my own coffee, but don’t offer to make me one. Not for a while yet.
Pause. Breathe. Read the room. In fact, reading the room is going to be the hardest thing to learn, it’s so nuanced and subtle and ‘we must have a coffee sometimes’ doesn’t mean that at all.

Sorry but you are the common denominator in all of this. 68 million people are not rude, cold and reserved. If you changed that to a skin colour- you would be called racist. Please stop with the hate.

Why is it always the English that get bashed? It's as though we are fair game. Yet do the same to any other nationality and you'd be called xenophobic.

I still think it is pretty simple - in cold countries like Scandinavia, UK, other bits of Northern Europe we are inside more and are a bit less outgoing. In hot places like Spain and Greece and Italy it is much warmer outside and people are out and about and bit louder.

May be global warming will make those from the North of Europe like those from the South.

Making a coffee at work is too keen? I mean, what on earth.?

Every workplace Ive ever been in, I've usually been offered a tea or coffee by someone.

In fact, in my workplace now in the uk, theres one spanish woman that works there part time.
when she is in work, any time she goes to make a tea, she asks me would i like a cup of tea.

How is asking about your weekend "too much".

In every other country ive worked in, people came in and chatted about their weekends. If they didnt do much, theyd say they didnt do much, or just that they watched a good netflix show, did i see it etc.

I'm not the common denominator on this.

My mum told me that she left England in the eighties, precisely because people were so rude and unfriendly to her. She told me that he felt really miserable here.

I thought it would have improved a bit by now, but I feel the same as her. I feel really miserable here.

I'll give it six months, as i dont like to job- hop too quickly, then
I'm going to look elsewhere

Glad you accept it's not just English people who live in the UK. Many nationalities could appear "cold" and "reserved". As an English person,I take offence at your thread title.

I never said its just English people that live in the UK.

What I wrote about the Spanish woman at my work, still fits in with my title.

The only person who is kind and friendly to me in my workplace in England, is Spanish.

All of my English colleagues have been rude and unfriendly to me.

I don't care if you're offended to be honest. Im allowed to write about my experiences and the abuse that ive received in England.

A lady just told me last week that when she arrived in England, she was told to fuck off back to her own country.

I think its important for people to speak about their experiences in England.

Ive seen English people write threads on mumsnet about being badly treated in Spain for example (spain is currently suffeing from over tourism)

So if they are allowed to write about being treated badly in another country, you should be big enough to take a bit of criticism about England, and let people write about their bad experiences in England

Of course there's no racists in France, amongst other places is there? You're grouping a nationality together in your derogatory description. You're coming across as xenophobic so there's some irony in there. You carry on not caring, I will carry on pointing out hypocrisy and bigotry.

I would say people are outwardly much friendlier in my home country of New Zealand but it's still pretty superficial. I'll invite you to my BBQ but I don't really want you ringing to chat about your marital woes and I am not ever telling you my amazing brownie recipe. Sorry.

Yes there's racists in other places.

There's also racists in England.

Are we not allowed to talk about that?

Why? Because you are English?

You could try and have some sympathy for what other people go through

Thats a small minded nasty attitude to have. Why are you even taking personal offense at it.

When i was living in another country, a man told me that he had received racost abuse. I didnt say to him "how dare you insult all my people!".

I said to him "im sorry that you experienced that".

Try not to be so defensive, and try to be kinder to people

Haha that brownoe recipe sounds good

Too bad, mate😀

I am taking offence at your approach to this because I think it's a goady thread. It seems it is as easy to bash the English as it was to Christians in another thread. Two threads, whose titles are like click bait. If you can't see that, maybe you should not be so dismissive and apply a little more thought and kindness yourself.

All of them were unfriendly? Sounds like it might be a "you" problem.

I love how you think that's a new thing to say.

That's already been said love. And its usually posted by people whp are tje prpblem. People with no empathy at all for others

So what about all the racism in England?
What about all the anti- immigration protests.

Do you think the racists have any fault at all

I think look at they overall point. How are you coming across on this thread?

People are explaining their points and experiences and you're digging your heels in, everyone else is wrong.

Now you're getting your mum involved.

I think you're a bit of a bull in a china shop socially and that can be very hard to shake once someone like that has got attached by accepting overture, favours, teas, whatever.

In general, English folk aren't unfriendly or unkind etc (some are!) but broadly, we are as independent as anything. We value freedom and not being stuck with obligations we don't want. We choose friends carefully, or a lot do. Many of us have deep social consciences, morals, humour etc. It's not that we don't love and care, but we are not as intertwined with others as some cultures. This isn't as simple as 'good or bad'.

I've had this discussion with many non native friends who find it lonely sometimes. I've said, just back off and let people get to know you in your own right. And slowly.

People are put off by those desperate for connection and friendship for its own sake. We can smell it a mile off and it smells like 'i will never shake this person off. They will never shut up and there may be a Scene'. God forbid a Scene.

If the working culture isn't about making teas or small talk, it's because people don't want that. Get to kn ow people and substantive conversations will form.

You could start a work social club and like minded people will gravitate. Lunchtime walks? That way you're doing it anyway. But A lot of people don't want to be jumped on just because they're there and you've got a loneliness issue. Manage that out of work.

I would find anyone really painful, telling me what to do out of work straight off the bat. That causes an obligation. I mean your old manager. You're still not grasping the cultural differences here. I'm sure she's lovely and I can see it coming up here if she happened to see an ad for an exhibition or whatever. That's fine. But its a fine balance and as I say, independence is key. Googling my interests? Back off.

Asking small talk questions when I may have difficulties outside work. You are coming across as really insistent and needy. People are very sensitive to that. I've worked in very chatty, fun workplaces. I've worked in very reserved , formal workplaces. All have been mostly great people. Not all ones I'd befriend but mostly decent. You have to read the room. You're getting people's backs up and pushing them away further by coming across as an obligation. You want to be someone that people want to have a quick chat with, or even go deeper. Give them space. Be professional. Say a breezy 'hi'. A joke here and there. I've always had really good friendships at work, whether they've endured or not. You can't push these though or engineer them. Let them happen at an equal pace.

I known someone who works for a big French company where they have to/ are expected to kiss on the cheek to greet colleagues (don't @ me, I don't know the full details and haven't been to the office but I believe them. It's a big company not some weird little setup in the back of beyond).

Would you prefer that? Honestly? Us fellow Brits aren't so bad. Just give us a bit of space, don't pry, don't try and create obligation, and let us get to know you. Don't force the issue. People can tell desperation. It's like opposing magnets.

The irony of people grabbing OP by the scruff of her virtual neck and berating her for suggesting that they are less than friendly here is beautiful

Well not really, she said people are cold and reserved. The point is that her behaviour in the workplace is what's likely to be putting people off.

She's clearly experiencing that cultural shock and alienation you get on coming home after a happy stint overseas.

Utterly normal. She'll reassimilate in time.

What a crock of absolute shite.

Can't understand for a minute why people aren't falling over themselves to be friends with OP 😁

I live on the Salento in Italy, and find most people shallow, materialistic and very often racist. The men make an open hobby of infidelity, and the woman seem overly concerned with being the big matriarch. These generalizations are not helpful in any way though, so I tend not to voice my opinions.

Privately, I'd take the multicultural company of a Yorkshire cafe, over a pretentious food obsessed Italian cafe any day. Maybe it's non of their fucking business if I want cappuccino after noon, I am paying for it after all. I find the people a bit boring to be honest.

I think you get good and bad everywhere.

Ah, as I thought.

You said "im getting people's backs up". You also called me insistent amd needy. How lovely amd kind of you. You definitely fit the theme of my title. You are rude and throwing out insults

You wrote that im getting rveryones back up. Did you read my posts

I wrote that i get on really well with the spanish person that i work with. She is kind. I have been out for walks with her, we make each other cups of tea. She chats about her weekend.

I dont get on with the English people that I work with. They barely nod at me. If i say somerhing like "how are you" theu usually look shocked that I'm even slightly asking them something, that is non work related.

I note thar you wrote that your non native friends also feel lonely in England.

So you do know that it happens.

You just seem so so so needy. I would run a mile. Sorry but maybe you're projecting your dislike of everyone else if they're English and making you hateful towards the English.

If you're that unhappy, totally, you should leave.